Fortune Bay NL

Devon Griffin wrote the following about Fortune Bay and the family of Elizabeth Saunders. He sent it as a comment on Newfoundland Mi’kmaq Family History. But with so much information that people are seeking, I asked if I could post it on its own. He kindly agreed and provided photos.

google map of Fortune bay
Fortune Bay: English Harbour East right of centre, Terrenceville far right. Click to enlarge

Martha Murphy Hynes

Martha Murphy’s parents were Walter Murphy & Bridget Ryan of Oderin and Little Harbour West, Placentia Bay. She had several siblings. (Martha married Joseph Hynes, son of Elizabeth Saunders and Thomas Hynes. After Martha’s death, Joseph married Mary Smith, daughter of John Smith and Elizabeth Vaters of Davis Island.)

Martha died on Feb 28 1884 in English Harbour East, and she’s buried in St. Bernard’s (The only RC cemetery on that side of Fortune Bay at the time) and her headstone still exists there.

Mary Bridget (Murphy) Barron, d/o John Murphy
Mary Bridget (Murphy) Barron, d/o John Murphy

I’m currently working on the Murphy family as it seems there was some Mi’kmaq blood in the family, but we are unsure how. They had some affiliation with native people in the Swift Current area in the early- to mid-1800s. If you look at Martha’s brother John Murphy’s daughters, they are very Mi’kmaq in appearance.

Smiths and Hacketts

Anastasia (Murphy) Smith, d/o John Murphy, with grandchild
Anastasia (Murphy) Smith, d/o John Murphy, with grandchild

Elizabeth (also known as Betsy) Smith Hackett’s parents were William Smith & Elizabeth Whittle. She married William Hackett. He died on May 17 1884 in English Harbour East according to Gertrude Crosbie’s transcription of NL Newspapers. Betsy’s sister Martha Smith married William Hackett’s brother, Thomas Hackett.

There also is some speculation about an early connection between the Hacketts and the Saunders. A Joseph Hackett was in Fortune Bay in 1818 according to the Keith Matthews collection at the Maritime History Archive. Dorothy, I’m not sure if you have seen it before but there was a Joseph Hackett in Labrador in the 1820s recorded as a half-Indian. Interesting the name shows up in both places.

Elizabeth Saunders Family

Also, more information on the Saunders. Elizabeth (Saunders) Hynes was indeed of Mi’kmaq origin. Her parents were John and Elizabeth Saunders, and were noted in court records for 1810/1811 as having saved a young servant girl Margaret Doyle from her master Michael Gorman. He was abusing her at Terrenceville (then known as Fortune Bay Bottom). They took her into their home and protected her from him.

Elizabeth Saunders and Thomas Hynes family D Stewart
Click to enlarge. Circled names are people in photos here.

DNA connection with Elizabeth Joe

We recently conducted a mtDNA test, which is your direct maternal line (your mother’s mother’s mother etc.), on John Saunders’ wife Elizabeth. We do not have a maiden name for her yet. The test came back and she shares a direct maternal line with Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard of the Bay of Islands [wife of William Blanchard].

As many know, Elizabeth Joe was Mi’kmaq and has been speculated to be Thomas Joe’s daughter or some relation to him. It’s also believed Mary Park Brooks was Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard’s sister and was Mi’kmaq. We’re working on getting an mtDNA test for a descendant of hers to prove that.

The mtDNA test showed that Elizabeth Saunders and Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard share a direct maternal line with a genetic distance of 0. That means it’s very recent (within the last 200-250 years), so the most likely scenarios are that they were sisters, aunt and niece or first cousins on the maternal side.

It’s pretty interesting to be able to connect two women who were known to be Mi’kmaq. If Mary Park Brooks mtDNA test comes back as sharing a direct maternal line also, it provides a little proof to their connection as I believe in the 1838/1839 list of inhabitants it says she was from Burin originally and is also where Elizabeth Saunders frequented.

John and Elizabeth Saunders, Terrenceville

Albert Saunders s/o George Saunders and Ann Baker
Albert Saunders s/o George Saunders and Ann Baker (click to enlarge)

John & Elizabeth Saunders had the following children: Elizabeth Saunders (m. Thomas Hynes), Richard (Dickie) Saunders (m. Joanna Clarke), Catherine Saunders (m. James Picco), Ann Saunders (m. Esau Rhymes), George Saunders (m. (1) Ann Unknown (2) Ann Baker), Jane Saunders (m. Timothy McCarthy), & Joseph Saunders (m. Mary Jane Myles). There could possibly be more, but that’s what has been confirmed over the years.

The area of Terrenceville in Fortune Bay was highly frequented by the Mi’kmaq up until the mid-1870s (the story of why they stopped travelling there is a whole few paragraphs of its own). The Saunders and their descendants ended up staying there and settling.

Lavhey family, Terrenceville

Another prominent Mi’kmaq woman who stayed in Terrenceville was Elizabeth, married to Lewis Lavhey. Apparently she was a Bernard originally. Their descendants, especially through their daughter Grace (m. Samuel Coombs), live on in the area.

Picco family and ships

The Piccos were also a very frequent Mi’kmaq family in the area and as you can see one of them (James Picco) married Catherine Saunders. They have been in the area of Fortune Bay for hundreds of years. Apparently the matriarch of that family died in 1844 (according to a family history story published in the 1960s) over a hundred years old and was a great great great grandmother. By that point, she lived in St. Joseph’s, Placentia Bay (then known as Gallow’s Harbour).

Mary Jane (Picco) Hanrahan, daughter-in-law and granddaughter
Mary Jane (Picco) Hanrahan, daughter-in-law and granddaughter

I have heard rumours and old family history that the Mi’kmaq Picco (often spelled Peaco or Pico) originally came from Nova Scotia. Dr. Leslie Harris, former president of MUN, stated in his book ‘Growing up with Verse’ that James Picco & Catherine Saunders’ son John Picco had Mi’kmaq blood, and that it was often talked about. The Piccos are a large family, but there haven’t been a lot of records concerning them. Seems James & Catherine lived in Fortune Bay at one point before moving to St. Joseph’s, and their son John was born there in 1841 according to his death record & Leslie Harris’ book.

James Hackett s/o Elizabeth Hynes and Michael Hackett
James Hackett, s/o Elizabeth Hynes and Michael Hackett, lost on the Donald Silver Jan. 1924

There are lots of ships registered for the Piccos from Fortune Bay. Behind English Harbour East (home of Elizabeth Saunders Hynes) there is also a place called Piccos Woods. I have recorded a Phillip Picco, Joseph Picco etc. trading with Newman and Co. in the 1790s out of Little Bay & Harbour Breton. As it’s known, natives typically moved around a lot for different reasons. The Piccos were no different, going between Bay d’Espoir, Fortune Bay and Placentia Bay.

John Family

Louis John and family also frequented the Long Harbour, Fortune Bay and Terrenceville areas, Peter John (his son) was born in Belleoram around the 1810s and one of the John men was a telegraph operator in Terrenceville.

Lots of more information if anyone is interested. I could go on forever. Still lots to figure out but we’ve definitely made some progress over the past few years putting things together. Hopefully someday we’ll map out all the Mi’kmaq of Fortune and Placentia Bays. DNA is a welcome assistant to our research and we encourage everyone to get a DNA test to find your cousins!

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58 thoughts on “Fortune Bay NL”

  1. Hi once again PipersHoleMan,
    Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I too agree it is time now to recognize the early Mi’kmaq families that lived in the area, and get the same recognition other communities and areas have gotten.

    That lady whom you met in Manuels, CBS is actually my Aunt Ellen. She’s a gg granddaughter of Elizabeth (Saunders) Hynes. She’s very knowledgeable about some of the early history of my family. Shd does look very native in appearance. That film that you mentioned was called “Finding Mary March” and was completed a few decades ago and she played one of Mary’s relatives.

    I have not seen a connection between the Barrington’s and the Branton’s, but would be interesting to dive into further. Berntim looks however to be a direct reference to Barrington. It could also be said that the old Bernard surname (Piktueruel) could have been passed down as Pico (Peaco/Picco) as well as your Pike/Pecks.

    Took a look at your DNA matches from FTDNA, I know quite a few of them. I don’t believe most of them are Mi’kmaq connections to you. Ms. Darrigan has strong connections to Conception Bay through her Sheppard line, so that is her probable connection to you. The rest, Park, Brake, Jesso, Hawkins, Perrier all descend from families out of Conception Bay whom immigrated to the West Coast. All of them are also connected to my Mi’kmaq ancestor Elizabeth Saunders who is a maternal relative of their Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard. The Wheelers, Parks etc. are also connected but has not been fully determined the extent of their connection, but they all came from the Burin Peninsula as shown in the 1838/1839 list of inhabitants of the Bay of Islands.

    From reading your comments, I realized whom I was talking to you. I have been trying to contact you for years regarding your research on the Piper’s Hole area. Everyone knows you online as Pikeman, especially due to your comments on Ancestry & NGB. Glad to finally be able to contact you.

    I recently came across a Court Record from 1811 in Fortune Bay which states the following (Still some words to be transcribed correctly):
    “PAGE 95:
    June 6th 1811:
    Reached Harbor Mille, an old woman there in bad health, deteriorating state.
    June 7th 1811:
    Reached Bottom of Bay. Choice situation indeed fit for every occupation or business of island. Either fishing, building, rearing cattle. Cultivation is inhabited by 6 or 7 planters, family’s of young children. The grand object of contention is a slope of land formed by waves about ½ mile long or 3/4 and about 60 or 70 yards broad. Several bonds? islands is within, out of the reach of waves. The slope formed in by former settlers.
    PAGE 96:
    Providing ?? supplies ?? for perhaps 100 heard of cattle if property by ?? and inland. The men in single hand skiffs fish at times within call from their houses. Trout in abundance of the size of small salmon at a harbor about two miles north side. Grand Le Pier ?? may be found any time in summer. Mikmaks visiting during intervals perhaps of several years for beaver? in summer and venison in winter when droves from ?? the hundreds came in from w?? ?? and across island.
    Upon a formal inquiry into the facts or occurrences and disturbances that have arisen some complaints of and decided upon on board of H.M. ships and Magistrate in Navy also myself at 2 or 3 different times. The intolerable? Malice and rooted revenge between the two parties, one Irish and the other English, there seems but one way putting an end to/ if after all ??/ vig? An order for all parties to pull down their ?? and lay the whole ship ?? for their cattle ?? in ??. The land in which they have built their houses is such level ground and affords plenty of room
    PAGE 97:
    to clear sufficient to provide grass or hay to feed on during winter.
    Each party is endeavoured for ?? by any ?? the number and the place very inviting to new beginners. A Young man Elijah? Pye made ap ?? for a spot asking him for the girl Margaret Doyle to be his wife this fall/. Reply if the girl is willing you may know this fall by inquiring further. Increase of number w?? also increase number of claims to grass cattle on the same spot. Some fatal ?? may? ensue inevitably ?? ?? a murder or two in the end. Two or three conflicts of late will prove the truth of remarks.
    June 9 1811 Sunday:
    Appearing Michael McGraw, Michael Gorman, a man and woman ??. 2 men, crew of ?? ??. ?? flew about and departure second most prudent – reached Cape Millier [Mille] near Bay de John following herring and on
    11th got to Belleoram gave notice of surrogate court to be held on Monday 17th following.
    June 13 1811:
    Went by land to St. Jacques, back same day.
    June 16 1811:
    Performed? Service? on this harbour read acts of parliament ?? to swearing, drunkenness, proclamations inclosing? lands, harmony and friendship between Native Indians, Mikmaks and Nflanders europeans? – following ??”

    I’m working with a few other researchers to figure out exactly where the writer says the Mikmaks (Mi’kmaq) came in from as it’s very difficult to read. This provides more evidence of the Mi’kmaq presence in Fortune Bay especially. For reference “Bottom of Bay” is the old name for Terrenceville. I am also conducting extensive DNA testing for several Mi’kmaq descended families and am currently awaiting 7 DNA tests to come back in the next couple weeks with hopes for many more to be done. When the results come back, maybe we could use that information in conjunction with the above Court record to create a Part 2 of this article. Lots to find out yet!!

    1. Hi Devon, thank you for your reply and sharing of detailed information on the topic-I enjoy reading all your commentaries. Regarding your interest and passion in seeking and eventually obtaining some form of recognition for the NL Mc families from the Terrenceville area of FB it looks like you are already well under way to accomplishing that task in the near future. I commend you for your hard work in this area of raising public awareness through conducting primary and secondary archival, fieldwork and genetic genealogy research. I look forward to reading a research paper, book or website on the area of study published under your name.

      Regarding the 3-5 cousin matches through FTDNA between some NL Mc from BOI area and my patriline I am quite certain that the AIM cm similarities reflect IBC, and not IBD; consequently it may have nothing do with sharing a common remote common uniparental ancestor going back 6-7 Gens. If it is the latter, namely IBD (Identical By Descent), then in all probability the shared uniparental ancestor (my parental great-great-grandfather’s mother) was probably of French descent or perhaps even part-French Indian. In addition to the Conception Bay Area as a source or epicentre for Anglo-Irish ethnic diffusion for the BOI families referenced, I would not categorically rule out French or Acadian as a possible source to explain the discrepancy in converging atDNA test results. This is a parsimonious explanation given the many French ancestral family names that also show up for these BOI families, and the possibility that many NS Mc families that emigrated to NL ca. 1790-1810 were already part or mixed French-so it may be next to impossible at present given current limitations in commercial atDNA genetic genealogy to filter out French from Anglo-Irish. As I mentioned before, as per community-family and reconstructed family history evidence, there is a distant French connection for the Pick/Peck patriline with connections emanating from Black River-Pipers Hole. Whether this comes from the paternal side namely Geo Peck, with connections to Trinity, TB North or the maternal side given name and family name unknown, cannot be determined. According to what Johnnie Martin told us at least, the Picks were down in that area going way back to ca. 1670, and in all likelihood fought in Father Baudoins War (1696-7) as regular troops in the French Army. All we know is at that “they were there with the French” and “they fought against the English”. There are also old family stories about how this desertion event in PB ties into the so called burn event at Stock Cove, TB but that is another story that is censored at present and will not see the light of day in the public domain for quite some time to come.

      If I were a betting man I would have to say that the Pick/Peck patriline descends from a naturalized Englishman who served as an indentured servant under Thomas Pitt (later Pick,…) of Plaisance, PB. It is known that he employed Basques, Bretons and even Africans all of whom fought in Dibervilles Campaign-alongside Abenaki and Mc scouts-guides-auxiliary militia. So it is quite possible that one of the deserters under the employ of Thomas Pick/Peck changed their family name upon desertion to that of their master following the desertion event so as to avoid detection. It is quite possible that this Frenchman and several others who defected ca. 1713 after the French were forced to abandon PB took refuge among the resident or in situ NL Mc and/or Abenaki from the Conne River, FB-Pipers Hole, PB areas-it definitely makes sense as there were no marriageable French or European females partners left in the area after the French pulled out, but such an intermarriage event goes way back app. 300 years or 12 Gens. I am 99.99 % certain that our patriline has nothing to do with Pekitualuet or Pikteuaruel, but I would not rule it out for the Pic(c)o one. I am definitely certain that our patriline is connected to the Thomas Pick one of Plaisance, whose son coincidentally Pierre Pick has associations with the NL Mc Helie/Huri patriline of Bonne Baie and indirectly to Jean Martin (montannier).

      For what it’s worth my DNA Tribes biogeographic ethnic origin percentage shows app. 1.1 % combined NA-Siberian which is very close to all the Gedmatch tests which show an app. range of 1.0-1.5% (lower limit) to 1.0-3.0%-so by inductive reasoning my fathers estimated count would be something like 1.0-1.2%. Unlike FTDNA which uses only Karitiana, Surui and Pima-Papago as reference populations, DNA Tribes uses many NA reference populations such as Anishanabeg & Plains Cree, but no East Cree, Mont-Nask,…So there is a small residual trace of NA markers but it’s not worth talking about really as it goes way back, 7-8 Gens or 200 years for both uniparental ancestors on both sides. The connection was there but succumbed to wash out events through 6-7 Gens of intermarriage with Anglo-Irish settlers. The 1811 record looks very interesting thank you for sharing that information. Keep up the excellent work.

      1. I would like to say that after conducting app. 20 years of independent ethnohistoric archival and ethnographic fieldwork that I am convinced now that both of my uniparental ancestors were not of NL Mc background, but of Lab Inuit and Innuat (Mont-Nask) descentvgoing back to ca. 1795-1805. I am absolutely convinced that the NL Mc connection on my father’s side comes from cultural borrowing or diffusion resulting from contact through friendship and/or hunting partnership with NL Mc kin groups emanating from Conne River, FB while seasonally residing in the Black River-Pipers Hole watershed area and has absolutely nothing to do with gene flow between both extended groups. The place names John Pike’s Mash and Pike Pond located north of the modern community of Swift Current, and west of Indian Pond & Frenchman’s Pond, suggest that this patriline principally inhabited the Black River Pond & Black River Mountains area. This hunting domain is located outside or peripheral to the principal one of John Barrington & Louis John located on th eastern side of the Tolt in the Piper’s Hole watershed. As for the place name Pike Place located at Brown’s Island, Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole River, that toponym was remembered only by Mark Vaters of Swift Current, a hunting partner of Thos. Barrington, who was told the name before Thos. passed away. Thos. pointed out the area of residence and associated place name while he was hunting with M. Voters and said “you see that place over there, that’s called Pike Place, that’s where the Pikes lived”. It’s hard to know whether the name derives from the wife of Mary Harriett Pick/Peck who supposedly married a John Martin Sr. for which reconstructed circumstantial and oral community evidence suggests may have emanated from Conne River, or whether it takes its name from an earlier settlement pattern going back to ca. 1817-22 when th Picks starting making inroads back into the area through a backmigration.

        Although I am not a FN/NA person of NL Mc descent I have a lot of respect for the old traditional lifestyle of living off the land. I remember as a young man up until 13 years of age spearing eels at night by torch with my father and grandfather. My grandfather’s eel spear was lent out around 1986 to a community friend and fishing partner but was never returned. I also remember hearing stories from my father about Old Johnnie Martin and Old John Pike spearing eels out at Eel Brook and putting their eel pots out at John Pike’s Path. I also remember stories from my father about how he could remember as a young boy seeing them making eel skin snowshoes or pattes racquettes. My poor father also drew sketches of these snowshoes and the homemade prospector tents that they lived in while they hunted and trapped at Rantem and Pipers Hole. He insisted that it was constructed from flower bags sewn together and soaked in linseed oil with a built-in floor, tarp cover and grommets and ropes as well as a homemade wood stove. They carried it in a homemade bundle of same material with a tumpline and shoulder carrying straps. A photograph of a similar tent is published in Doug Jackson’s book On the Country showing Steven John and the Jeddores, and is very similar in design to he Innu canvas tent and I suspect that it was also used by telegraph line repairmen of NL Mc and Anglo-Irish descent. My father and his brother used the tent last hunting caribou at Grey River in the early 70s, and it was never seen again after it was lent out to a family friend shortly after. Old John Pike was remembered by family and friends as living in this tent alone for 2-3 months at a time while he went hunting-trapping up Pipers Hole River. We were also told growing up “Old John Pike grew up with th Indians in Piper’s Hole” and “the Pikes came from Pipers Hole”. My father remembered some of the words from the old language that Johnnie Martin spoke and I can attest that is was definitely NL Mc according to vocabulary or word lists but according to sound or cadence with a residual influence from some other language like Innu-aimun. Other details on this way of life can be found in NL Grand Banks Message Board.

        With regard to physical features older members of my family noted the similarities in facial features between older members of both the Barringtons and Pikes. Some of these similarities also extended to mannerisms, expressions, and ways of talking-walking, so somewhere along the way there was conditioned learning through close contact. Older members of the community insisted that “you guys are all tangled up but we don’t know how”. Alphonse also reiterated this remote shared ancestry in looking at family photographs of my distant ancestors when he said “no problem to tell that we’re related”, “looks like me from here down” pointing to a family photograph of my paternal great-grandfather. All of these personal subjective opinions or impressions on shared similarities in features aside, which are open to interpretation and debate, they may be nothing more than accidental convergence or chance resemblance and without solid DNA evidence to back it up it may never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Until then such evidence is tantamount to anecdotal hearsay or reconstructed circumstantial evidence orbiting on the fring of conjectural speculation. I suspect however that there is grain of truth to it but the suspected divergence from the shared MRCA goes back further than predicted to ca. 1795-1805. So the DNA evidence like the surviving material culture and language is all but lost with only a small residual trace.

        With regard to physical features the old Pick/Peck family members did not have a stereotypical NA/FN physical type or physiognomy, but in the flesh a West Mediterranean, SW Asian or SE European physical type. The closest resemblance of my paternal grandfather was with Armenians like the Kevorkian patriline, which was definitely not NA/FN but Mediterranean Caucasoid of Armenoid type. Older paternal uncles also have a Southern European or Mediterranean type such as that attested in the Pacino and DeNiro patriline. The Kafka patriline of Ashkenazic origin in Eastern Europe also approximates it closely. Coincidentally, my FTDNA My Origins shows 2.0% West Middle East, 2.0% SE Europe and 5.0% East Europe.

        To summarize, I have not conducted archival research since 2009 and have no intentions of furthering this research programme in th near or foreseeable future. Until whole genome sequencing comes online to the masses at an affordable costs investment in future atDNA testing is on hold. As per DNATribes and GEDMatch testing the range of NA/Siberian is somewhere in the order of 1.0-1.5, and with future testing of Quebec North Shore & Lab Mont-Nask samples the results may jump up as high as 1.5-3.0% but that will be it. Essentially, this research resulting from the recent atDNA testing ends app. 20 years of independent archival and fieldwork research. My only wish is that current atDNA testing was made available 20 years ago. If it were I would have not gone down this road of private research. I learned my lessons here and I have found peace and closure with he final test results. This chapter in my life is now officially over. The ball is now in the court of Swift Current community residents and Barrington & John family descendants to someday effect and finalize som wort of land protection, historic commemorations programmes and ecotourism guiding business. I don mye

        1. Please note that the last sentence “I don mye… got cut off n should read I done my part and my work here is done. I have nothing to say on the topic anymore, to do so would border on obsessive repitition or redundancy. The only thing to do is to wait for future testing of Lab Innuat DNA and perhaps NL RI ancient DNA samples. I would be very happy if anyone in NL or elsewhere can prove descent through atDNA, mtDNA or YDNA, whether to NL Mc, Innu, or even as controversial and debatable as it sounds NL RI. But as it stands right now the blood quantums or predicted biogeographic ethnic origin percentages for my family on both sides are so low as to not warrant or justify application for official DIAND recognition or status. It’s just enough there to say that the connection existed going back 7-8 Gens from me and 6-7 Gens for my parents, but essentially it died our through wash out events of intermarriage. Whole genome sequencing however will be able to detect the rare AIMs and mutation markers, but the range of NA ancestry will still rise only by a few fraction points or perhaps 1.0-1.5 x the current levels. Similarly my patriline relinquished all title to both hereditary and usufructury rights to land and resources in the Pipers Hole watershed area upon emigration in 1934-so we have no rights there anymore. For educational and public awareness purposes, it would be nice to see more archaeological surveys in the area of Upper PB to put the ancient human migration-settlement history into spatio-temporal sequence, namely radiocarbon dating of archaeological sites to determine date of occupation and by what group. I wish you th best in your research Devon and I hope to someday see a publication under your name in the public domain. Thank you for your time and consideration, but I really don’t have anything left to say. Like Laura Barrington said when my uncle and I met them in Badger “it’s a different breed altogether”. I now know that I am not NL Mc or even part NL Mc. My 2 NA/Inuit ancestors emanate from Labrador and are in all likelihood were either Innu or mixed Inuit-Innuat going way back to 1790-1805, but definitely not NL Mc. Although there is some evidence for a cultural and linguistic connection to NL Mc from Pipers Hole this connection resulted from hunting partnerships and friendship without gene flow events resulting from intermarriage. I would like to say that I have nothing but respect for NL Mc language, culture and identity, but they are not my people. I would not be living in truth if I were to say otherwise. I believe that the evidence I presented in the public domain through online and paper publications backs this observation up. Right now there is not one shred or piece of evidence that links my paternal and maternal ancestral lines to any NL Mc families or communities. At the same time I really think that it is important to keep this information online pertaining to the Bowe patriline of Brigus-Cupids, CBN and the Pick/Peck one of Pipers Hole, PB so that other researchers may not be misled into thinking that this connection may have been NL Mc. Sometimes a cultural or linguistic connection does not imply a one-to-one mapping with genetics or family history/genealogy. Thank you for your time Dorothy and Devon. I appreciate the opportunity to post a subset of my research here. Best and warmest wishes.

        2. Thanks, PipersHoleMan, I have enjoyed following your and Devon’s discussion. You’ve provided a wealth of information and interesting points to think about. All the best to you and, again, thanks.

    2. Hi Devon this will be one of my last comments on the topic, as there is not much left to say other than what has been already said. As for my atDNA test results from AncestryDNA & FTDNA I have some doubts and uncertainties about using current, direct-to-consumer commercial genetic genealogy testing as an accurate testing tool to supplement a paper trail genealogy without any written archival records. As an example, my FTDNA results show many 3-4 cousin matches to Scandinavians from Norway & Sweden with all Scandinavian ancestral family names. I contacted some of these test participant matches and all of them have lived in Norway & Sweden since time immemorial with no immigration sources from outside the country. This phenomenon seems to reflect ancient IBD (Identical By Descent) where blocks or segments of atDNA is passed down through reshuffling. I suspect that the 11-12% Scandinavian biogeographic ethnic origin count that shows up on my webpage reflects ancient Jutish-Viking ancestry from Eastern England and/or Norman ancestry and consequently has nothing to do with recent shared common ancestry such as having a Scandinavian great-grandparent. The same argument goes for my 3-4 cousin matches with Quebec North Shore French Canadian participants-but once again nothing in the paper trail to substantiate or corroborate any shared recent or remote ancestry with French Canadians other than reconstructed circumstantial evidence and oral community-family history. I think that current 700,000 SNP testing is relatively accurate in determining shared ancestry within 3-4 Gens but after that it gets very tricky and should be supplemented with other archival and filedwork research due to the possibility of IBC or false negative phenomena. With regard to any suspected shared remote ancestry between th Pick/Peck patriline and th Barrington one of Black River-Pipers Hole I suspect that if it ever existed it goes back to the mother of my paternal great-great-grandfather’s mother and the mother of John Barrington’s mother. So it is quite possible that my paternal great-great-grandmother’s mother and John Barrington’s mother may have been sisters or even half sisters. Either way the genetic distance is in the range of 7-8 Gens from me or 6-7 Gens from my biological father so any shared atDNA will be in the range of app. 0.5-1.5 %, which is very low indeed and without whole genome sequencing which detects AIMs in the range of 8-9 Gens and paper trail archival records to back up the rare mutation markers, such speculation may be nothing more than mere conjecture. Assuming that direct living descendants of both groups share a rare mutation marker, all that such testing will prove is that so and so has a rare or unattested marker suggesting that so and so shares a common ancestor going way back, but other than identifying the name of that remote ghost ancestor and the genetic distance whole chronological calculation it may be next to impossible to prove or disambiguate without reasonable doubt. Coincidentally, I have two matches with Barringtons one a 3-4 cousin match with a Merrick from NS through FTDNA where the ancestral family names are Barron, Barrington (Cape Breton, NS) & Hawco (NL, Can) and A. Barrington (NL, Can) through AncestryDNA. I suspect that neither match has anything to do with the Barringtons from Black River-Pipers Hole. The former reflects a shared Hawco ancestor and the latter may in all probability reflect an Irish Barrington group resident in the St. John’s area that has nothing to do with the Upper PB one. I think that somewhere along the way going way back say 6-7 Gens from my father it is quite possible that the Barringtons and Picks/Pecks are somehow related but once again this goes back to ca. 1790-1805 which is a very long time ago. This wouldn’t be that far fetched given the similarities in soft tissue craniofacial features between members of both groups going back 3 Gens as verified by older living descendants of both patriline. Until whole genome sequencing which covers all 10,000,000 SNPS plus also some non-functional junk DNA comes onboard and is made available to th general public through direct-to-consumer commercial genetic genealogy testing or vendor services at an affordable cost say in the next 7-10 years, many of these questions relating tomote shared ancestry will remain unanswered. The primary research on archival genealogy and ethnohistory for the Pipers Hole watershed area is now complete, with only further archaeological surveying of the area pending-I really don’t know what future atDNA testing will prove given the predicted genetic distances. I will post a commentary on archaeological surveying to finish off the discussion in the coming 1-2 weeks. There’s really not much left to say on the topic other than to wait and see what comes to light by other researchers’ accidental archival research findings.

      As a postscript, I think a clearer picture is now emerging as to the identity of the Brigus-Cupids, CBN group which some private researchers claimed may have been NL Mc. I am quite confident that this group in question was of mixed Inuit or Montagnais-Inuit origin and has nothing to do with NL Mc. I do know that the grandfather Joe Bussey of my mothers grandmother Fanny Bowe died on a schooner in Labrador. In addition members of the Rowe family who married into the Bowe patriline, namely those related to the mother of Fanny Bowe’s father George Bowe were born in Labrador. From what I can see at least from looking at the photographs of my great-grandmother Fanny Bowe and remembering my grandmother the look is more like Northern People from Labrador-namely Lab Inuit or mixed Inuit-Naskapi. I think that a similar argument can be extended to the adoptive woman and her children taken in by Peter Brazil at Trinity 1817-22. If the oral testimony in the report is indeed correct she was not of NL Mc ancestry but more than likely of Lab Mont or even Mont-Beo! I suspect that her family name has nothing to do with Brazil or Basque and may suggest another family name of different origin.

      In the meantime, I look forward to reading your Part 2 write up on FB. Have fun this summer and please keep up the outstanding and exemplary research. Sincerely and best.

      1. Hi PipersHoleMan:
        I am Laura Barrington..
        Could you please tell me your name, for the life of me I am not sure of who you are..I am thinking you are D.P…not giving out your name..please message me and let me know would love to know who you are…Take care

    3. Re. Mi’kmaq Grand LaPierre. Word beginning with “w” could be west and buddy is talking about droves of caribou coming in from the west.

    4. 1921 Grand Bay
      WELLS; John M Head Married 1885 Feb 35 Grand Bay
      WELLS; Sarah F Wife Married 1886 Sep 34 Fortune
      WELLS; Ernest M Son Single 1912 Aug 8 Grand Bay
      WELLS; Randel M Son Single 1914 Jan 6 Grand Bay
      WELLS; Lillian F Dau Single 1916 Jan 4 Grand Bay
      WELLS; John M Son Single 1919 Apr 1 Grand Bay
      PAULS?; Elizabeth M MIL Widow 1845 Jun 75 Fortune Bay

      1. Hi Phil, would be able to email me at devon.griffin(at)hotmail.com
        Replace the “(at)” with a @ symbol or maybe Dorothy could forward my email to you. :)

        I have been trying to contact you for many years as I have heard you a renowned researcher of Mi’kmaq families and would like to connect.

        Thanks in Advance
        Devon Griffin

      2. Mr. Jeddore, I just wanted to start by saying that I have a lot of respect for your NL Mc Jeddore (Geodol/We’jitu) extended kin group. I am sorry to hear about the passing of your father last year. I met him once many years ago at Miawpukek (along with several of his children) and can testify that he was a very intelligent, gentle soul with a wealth of knowledge on all matters of and pertaining to NL Mc ethnohistory, genealogy-family history and folklore. I also read and purchased his book which I gave as a gift to a close friend. The book was a very interesting read on his personal life and family-community history. One place name stood out that some fieldwork linguists overlooked in their analysis of NL Mc place names: Sa’nMartineweyspekiet “John Martin’s Lookout” -the origin of -spekiet is indeed interesting from an etymological perspective. If I recall some older literary sources also give sko’paq(a)n as an alternative word for lookout. IMHO I sincerely feel that this place name deserves inclusion in a redacted or updated research paper or lexicon edition of published NL Mc place names. The only question: how many place names of NL Mc origin have been lost to time-hence the importance of funding fieldwork elicitation and literary documentation to preserve this knowledge for future generations. As a postscript, I can humbly admit that there was a point in my past where I was partly fluent and almost literate in reading-writing Ktaqmkukewi’simk-a beautiful polysynthetic (non-configurational) language of the Eastern Algonquian stock. I had the fortune of learning under a leading authority and well respected scholar in the field who knew both Peter (Piye’l) & Matthew (Mattiyew) Jeddore-to appreciate NL Mc one has to hear it from the old school masters. Their “voice” has left a lasting impression on me and it it will never be forgotten. There are still times that I go off speaking NL Mc and I don’t even realize it LOL! Although its not my language I still appreciate it, love it and dearly respect it. Best wishes Pinip We’jitu Namaste.

  2. Pipers Hole Man ! A very interesting read as I have been searching my husbands family tree for past two years but has gotten nowhere near the wealth of information that i have discovered here on this blog. I did however come across the photograph of John Barrington and Big John Steven’s and sent the photograph to Alphonsus ‘s wife Laura whom I’m sure if Phonse had been alive at the time of this photograph would have tears of happiness for finally being able to put a face to John Barrington. My husbands name is Terence who’s grandfather was Alphonsus Barrington Sr and would love to know more regarding John Barrington and or other relations.

    1. Hi Bernice! My name is Yvette. John Barrington was my Great-Great Grandfather. a lot of you husbands relations live in Swift Current NL ( my hometown). My Great Grandfather and you Husbands Grandfather were brothers.

    2. Hi Bernice, just read this reply. My gut instinct told me when I first saw the photograph published in the book “Connecting the Continents” (2009) that the man standing at left was John Barrington. I had the privilege and honour of meeting Alphonsus Barrington Jr. over a period extending from 2003-2005. He was a gentle soul with a big heart, infectious smile and laughter. I first met him and his wife Laura during the summer of 2003 at Badger where they warmly welcomed me into their home. The first thing that he said to me was “you remind me of Duncan” and it was one of the last things that he said to me as we parted ways in the main entrance of the Bliss Murphy Centre, HSC Jan 2005. As we stood there together he looked into my eyes with intensity holding back tears, placed his hand on my shoulder and said “I will see you on the other side of the river my ole buddy”. I replied the same as we parted ways, and that was the last time I seen him in person. When I met him in 2003 he admitted that he didn’t know much about the genealogy and family history of his patriline. The only information that he had was a photocopy of the 1921 NL Census for Swift Current. He encouraged me to conduct more research on the topic, and was one of the driving forces that compelled me to seek out more information to answer some of the many unanswered questions. I found the death record for John Barrington during the summer of 2004 and shared it with him in Jan 2005. He wasn’t expecting Con (sic.) River as POB, but he slowly came about accepting the reality. The Barringtons at Garden Cove, Buchans and Badger didn’t know anything about my family, but spoke highly of Old Johnnie Martin (s/o John Martin Sr, & Mary Harriett Peck). Old Johnnie Martin “talked a lot about an old Indian from Swift Current” (John Barrington ). He also “worked on the (telegraph) line with Thos. Barrington from Rantem to Black River”. Like my late father said “poor old Johnnie went on and on talking about Pipers Hole and the Old Indians but everyone just laughed at him and thought he was crazy”. Johnnie knew a lot about Pipers Hole and the Mc-Mont families from there as he was allegedly born there and grew up his adult life living next to John Barrington and Mary Hawco. They were the only families living there then at Indian Cove, Brown’s Island, and were called the “crowd across the river”. Like Alphonse said “the only people that lived over there were Indians”-I would have to say based on my research that was indeed correct. Pipers Hole 100 years ago was not the same place as now as it was even more isolated and secluded. Poor Alphonse can remember visiting his grandmother and Duncan-the one thing that stood out him was the silence and tranquility of the place. He also noted that all of the clocks on the wall never worked, like he told me “it was like time had stood still”. It was a different world or a step back in time to quieter more peaceful times where simplicity and respect for nature and wildlife guided the flow and rhythm of time. Very few would understand this now, unless they witnessed it firsthand. My only regret was not knowing Alphonse Barrington more his presence is greatly missed and lamented. I hope this helps.

  3. Hi Devon, I will be away from my computer in the coming 3-4 days, as I have work-related commitments, so I will be unable to reply to your questions and queries until then. I strongly encourage you to continue with this research, so as to “carry on the torch” so to speak. Personally speaking, I will not be attempting to undertake a paper or manuscript publication on the research topic, as there are still too many unanswered questions and gaps in the data set to substantiate a full book release-plus pending DNA studies which may take ap. 3-5 years or more. More primary archival research is required with follow up peer-reviewed cross-checking of fieldwork and archival research. This is a big undertaking that I neither havre the time, enery nor resources to complete at my age, and with other commitments such as starting a family. Beyond legitimizing a book publication on the topic, I do think that there is enough evidence avalaible now in the public domain to justify a small NL Mc interpretive & commemorative plaque, perhaps at the gravel pit look-out point halfway up Mile Hill, near Toby Outlook, and overlooking Indian Cove, Brown’s Island, PHR. This community outreach programme would have to be a collaborative interdisciplinary endeavour involving all concerened and affected parties, such as community residents from Swift Current, PB & Conne River, FB, as well as NL Mc descendants of the Barrintgon & John extended kin patrilines from the local areas. The community history commemoration programmes of Deer Arm, Bonne Bay (BOI), near Norris Point, Boyd’s Cove, NDB & Frenchman’s Island, Sunnyside, TB South, serve as exemplary models to be emulated. I would like to see you one day complete this task and publish a book or minimally a mansuscript on the topic. In the meantime, I can only be a “silent supporter” offering my guidance and input as a consultant on any academic or research questions that you feel comfortable tabling. I will do my best to answer all your questions. I sincerely extend my blessings and support.

    In the meantime, as a postscript, I had an opportunity to meet on several occasions a woman residing at Manuels, CBS, who is a Saunders from Fortune Bay. She looks very much NA, having stereotypical Amerindian features. She didn’t know that the connection was NL Mc or NL RI. I think that she played an acting role in a movie a long time ago as a Beothuk, if I recall distinctly. She informed me that her older family members from FB told her that Piper’s Hole was once called “Chimney Cove” by FB resients, because travellers coming from FB overland on foot while descending Mile Hill from the high country could see the smoke from the tilt chimneys rising up from the valley below. I never heard of that place name before, but it makes sense-I was unable to corroborate that place name on published topographic maps, or those held in archival holdings.
    Regarding the origin of the Barrington patriline there is an interesting family name Berntim listed in an 1869 Alexander Murray census for Miawpukek that gives a Daniel Berntim.
    (http://www.geocities.ws/pilip/reserve.htm)
    Could the NL Mc patronym Berntim be an attempted rendition of Barrington? This patronym is highly marked or very rare and is not found elsewhere throughout the eastern domain of islands of Mi’kma’kik. Note also Brandts (sic.) Point, as if reflecting Brant’s (sic.), the name of the old Indian settlement of Miawpukek. Could this be a variant of Bran(g)t(on) with concomitant loss of final -on! Note also the family name Branton, pronounced as Banton, Bantem, ….of TB South, and the place name Bentham (Wix 1835), for Rantem. I think that the family name Brandt is an old one in Miawpukek whose patrilineal descendants either died out or married out into other family lines losing the hereditary family name. The family name was significant enough that it was preserved and passed on as the name of the old Indian village or settlement-so it held high esteem and prestige by the Indians of old at one time. These are just some food for though for you to ponder in the coming days. I look fwd to and appreciate your input and feedback.

    Sincerely,
    PHMan

  4. Hi Devon, here are some of my atDNA matches from FTDNA Family Finder showing family name, theorized relationship or genetic distance, shared centimorgans, longest block shared and some common NL Mc ancestral names associated with that family line:

    Young (Le Jeune dit Briard)
    2nd-4th cousins
    84
    21

    Darrigan
    2nd-4th cousins
    56
    23
    (Sheppard, Payne, Brake, Matthews, Blanchard, Joe)

    Park
    4th-Remote
    53
    12
    (Park, Blanchard, Matthews, Joe)

    Brake
    4th-Remote
    43
    16
    (Blanchard, Payne, Matthews)

    Jesso
    5th-Remote
    34
    9
    (Bernard, Chego, Doucet, Dennis, Helie, Louis, Marche, Muis)

    Hawkins
    5th-Remote
    33
    8
    (Benoit, Bernard, Blanchard, Cheog, Doucet, Joseph, Leblanc, Lejeune, Michel, Muis, Park, Perrier, Matthews, White, Young)

    Perrier
    5th-Remote cousins
    33
    8
    (Benoit, Bernard, Chego, Doucet, Helie, Joseph, Leblanc, Lejeune, Matthews, Muis, Webb, White)

    Other matches include Humbers, Benoits, Whites and Youngs from BOI and Bay St. George as 4th-Remote cousins.

    I have reconstructed my maternal and paternal family trees or genealogies going back 5-6 Gens and none of these common NL Mc patrilines are anywhere in the “paper trail” or written record. I suspect that the so called French or French Indian connection comes from the mother of my paternal great-great-grandfather, who was believed to emanate from Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole River, PB, with a connection to Trinity, TB North-my gut feeling tells me that she is the woman associated with the family of Peter Brazil at Trinity 1818-22. All of my other matches in the database for NL are “right on the money” and in accord showing a one-to-one match or correspondence with the paper trail record. In other words, the predicted shared relationships match the paper trial records. For instance, the TB South patriline to which we are known to trace ancestry back to a common forefather in Trinity, TB North, dated ca. 1795 (224-5 years), where one group split off and migrated to TB South (NHr area) and the other to Piper’s Hole-Black River, both show up as 5th-Remote Cousins, or 6-7 Gens which is what the YDNA STR calculator evidence shows and predicts-a perfect match. To date, I have no known matches to either NL Mc or NL Anglo-Irish on the south coast, such as Fortune Bay, or SW coast, such as Burgeo-Lapoile, but only clusters at CBS-CBN, TBSouth-North, and BOI (Bay of Islands-Bonne Bay) & Bay St. George’s, where the former two clusters are in perfect alignment with my paper trail genealogy, as all of my known Anglo-Irish ancestors emanated from there. To date, no records (whether birth, marriage, or death) of my paternal great-great-great-grandmother, or for that fact any of my paternal great-great-grandfather’s siblings and cousins, have been found-we don’t even know her first name, but Anne is suspected given the occurrence of several place names associated with her in the TB South area. No one knows anything about them other than that they came from Piper’s Hole and show up around 1849-59 at THr, Tb South. I think that this evidence is the missing link connecting this ghost or phantom ancestor, and Trinity, TB North and Piper’s Hole, PB. Coincidentally, my paternal line or patriline vanishes from Trinity, TB North and migrates to Piper’s Hole-Black River watershed areas at the same time that the small Mc family referenced in Hickson 1820/1 disappears from Trinity during the summer of 1822. It is interesting to note that the common thread here in all the matches is the Brake, Park, Matthews and Joe connection. 4-5th cousin matches would be around right for my paternal great-great-grandfather’s mother. If this is not a case of IBC (Identical By Chance), but IBD (Identical By Descent) AIMS (Ancestry Informative Markers), which excludes “false positives” which would feed a “confirmation bias”, which I don’t think that it is, something is pulling the atDNA test results closer to BOI NL Mc kin groups going back 6-7 Gens (5th-Remote Cousin), in all probability perhaps reflects a shared, uniparental, remote common ancestor between the BOI Brake-Matthews-Park extended kin group and mine, say ca. 1795-1805. Coincidentally, my paternal great-great-grandfather also resided at Quirpon-Cape Norman, GNP (Great Northern Peninsula), and is somehow associated with a small group of 3 Indians (probably NL Mc-Mont, or Lab Mont), which show up on record (cf., NL Censuses 1859, & Bonavista-Trinity Bay RC parish registers showing raising of young girl by an Indian woman residing there). Incidentally, older members of my patriline emanating from Piper’s Hole, PB going back 3-4 Gens self-identified as French. In our community when other residents talked about the old French-English Wars (presumably either Father Baudoin’s War of 1696/7 or Queen Anne’s War 1706) my great-grandfather would point to a burial plot where 3 Frenchmen were buried and say “there are 3 Frenchmen buried over there, 2 of them are P…s”. Johnnie Martin, a self-proclaimed Frenchman, who called himself by said name, and allegedly also spoke French, talked a lot about the desertion event at Piper’s Hole and our family in the same sentence, and how his family line derived from a similar desertion event (his mother being my paternal great-great-grandfather’s sister) in Labrador while coming down from Labrador on a schooner and being born in a cave somewhere around “The Horn”, so it seems that our patriline has been around for a long time in Upper PB, going back and forth from Upper PB to TB South, say since 1670. My paternal grandfather only left this area in ca. 1934, and returned during the fall as late as 1968-70 to guide caribou hunters from TB South to the Black River Mts. & Black River Pd., going inland westward from the North Harbour Barrens-that’s not that far back. The French and/or French Indian connection makes sense given the association with the Martin patriline from Indian Cove, PHR, PB.. It would be interesting to see what future atDNA testing shows with any suspected connection between the Brake-Matthews-Park kin group noted above-time will tell. Very interesting indeed!

  5. REPLY PART 2:

    Thank you for the links on the archeology finds. I had read about these some time ago, and had used one of Penney’s reports for a Mi’kmaq proposal for Fortune Bay.

    I had seen that photograph of Fanny Bow(e) before a long while ago. I remember some debate over her ancestry. Definitely Native American, but what tribe was the question at the time. Labrador is an area that is very unfamiliar to me genealogically, as is Conception & Trinity Bays. Ethnic percentages is a tricky science, as really the companies are only comparing your DNA to known reference populations. I take them as an idea of your ethnic percent, but not as exact numbers. If you test at all of the Big 3 DNA companies (FTDNA, 23andMe & Ancestry) you will likely see some significant differences, and thankfully gedmatch has a great tool for showing different ethnic calculators for free. By the way, what is your mother’s gedmatch kit number? I would like to do a direct comparison to a few of my kits to see if they match at all.

    I enjoy having on file, the information about the Brazil/Basque family and could be of use in the future. Thomas JOE & Marie CABISH, suspected parents of Elizabeth (JOE) BLANCHARD mentioned in this article, had a son Thomas JOE Jr. baptized in King’s Cove in the early 1800s.

    I have a couple descendants of Elizabeth (BERNARD) LAVHEY on gedmatch, with the closest being a gg granddaughter. It would be interesting to see if they match any BERNARD descendants in other parts of Newfoundland.

    I think the biggest untapped resource for Fortune Bay, Burin Peninsula & Placentia Bay Mi’kmaq may be the St. Pierre RC records. I think within those records, there are clues to the early Mi’kmaq families of the area. I know some are online, but I know not all. With the first RC records dating only back to 1833 (as Placentia records prior to this weren’t recorded), I think if someone had the capacity to go through those records it would greatly benefit our research.

    1. I am quite certain that Mc Cabish derives from Mc tqope’j “twin”-note the NB-Que Mc Marie (or Mali) patrilines are presumably related; cf. UNB Mi’kmaq Vital Statistic records online. I am also quite certain that the NL Mc Bernard patriline are somehow related to the Bigge and de Lwett ones cited in a Thomas White 1808 Census for Bay St. George (Sandy Point), which lists a Louis Guhu (needs checking) Bigge and de Lwett as 2 Indians residing there (Butt ). The first of the set has a given and family that bears a striking resemblance to the Louis Hugo Pikteuaruel (perhaps a variant of Pekitualuet, Peguidalouet, Beguiddavalouet, Picquid Oulat, Pegidawa Oulat,…) listed in the Saint Pierre at Miquelon parish registers and other ethnohistoric references, while the second family name de Lwett appears to be an attempted rendition of the econd element of the Peguidalouet patronym, namely -dalouet. If I were to lay my bets on this I would have to say that what we are looking at here is one of 2 scenarios, namley: 1.) a father by name of Peguidalouet took the first element Mc peki~piji-“long” as a family name while his son or a brother took the second element as a family name. A reconstructed etymology for the Pekitualuet patronym was discussed in detail in The Newfoundland Ancestor, while the 2 names referenced above are cited in Kirk R. Butt’s book “Early Settlers of Bay St. George” (2013) Vol. 1-2. I don’t have a page volume and page number, but I am quite certain that it is cited in Vol. 1, on early Mi’kmaq presence in the area. I am certain that the Bay St. George, Conne River and Piper’s Hole Bernards (and also Brunals as listed in the Newman & Co. Little Bay Ledgers) are one and the same patriline. Coincidentally, the ancient NL Mc toponym Nukamkia’ji’jk “Sandy Harbour” (PB) and the same place name for Sandy Pond (FB) (Hewson 1978,& Pacifique 1935), the latter a known hunting territory of the Bernard family from Conne River, Bay d’Espoir, may not be a coincidence. The question remains which is the older toponym, and by whom was it transplanted or transferred-in all probability by the Bernard (Pekitualuet) patriline. A similar argument may be extended to the place names Sa’npatistek (FB) “Brunette Island (Fortune)” (south of Long Harbour River and west of Fortune), and the same one referring to Lake St. John or “John Pond” (referenced in JHA 1864-Smith McKay Northern Mail Route “Orange Lane” survey 1863), near Mollyguajeck (Maliku’jek, named after Malagawatch, Cape Breton, NS & Mirligueche, after the band which Saqamaw Jeannot Peguidaluet ruled). These place names are invariably derived from the given and last names of Jean Baptiste with locative morpheme -ek. I am almost positive that the John family derives from Jean Baptiste, perhaps the same Jean Baptiste (Sekaquet-a variant of Chegau, Chegaguisht,….) referenced in the SPM parish registers and Newman & Company Little Bay Ledgers (1790-1). Note that the John family name also exists among Abenaki kin groups as A(r)gent~Ozon, where Fr. Argent has been rendered as a corruption in NL Anglo-Irish dialects for Upper PB dialectal speech communities as John; cf. Bay de John (fr. Baie de Argent). In addition to Jean Baptiste the John family name could also derive from a nickname for Placentia Bay person or Piper’s Hole person. So a name like James John as referenced in Cormack 1822 and Burin RC parish registers would have been something like Jean Jean (Baptiste), which later became Jean Jean (Eng. John John) with loss of Baptiste-note John John for James John in Whitbourne RC parish registers. it is known that James and John were used interchangeably among the Martin and Barrington patrilines from Piper’s Hole, PB. Pinip Jeddore (We’jitu) citing NL Mc oral traditions claims that the Johns came from “Placentia Way” (Ancestry Message Board on-line, 2011), while his grandfather Pi(y)e’l Jeddore told Stoker of MUN Folklore in a recorded and transcribed interview that “the Johns came from Terra Nova [River] (ie., the headwaters of the Terra Nova River, near John Pond & Mollyguajeck, Gander Bay) (P. Jeddore, pers. comm., 2006). Coincidentally, Duncan Barrington of Indian Cove, PHR, PB hunted and trapped out of Mollyguajeck, having learned this seasonal round of subsistence-settlement from his father John Barrington Sr..

  6. REPLY PART 1 (MAY 28 2017):

    Hi Again PipersHoleMan,
    Once again thank you so much for the wealth of information. It’s quite amazing how much information you have amassed and no doubt this information will be valuable for years and years to come. Please continue to tell us more about what you have learned.

    I have studied the set of family history records for Placentia Bay. They are many, but I highly doubt they even put a dent into the amount of records that were lost. The residing priest at the time, gathered (very honourably) as many records as he could from those who were living in the areas and readily accessible for information, but it seems many many families were left out. Thankfully there are bits and pieces of some families in which we can pick from.

    I did record a Martin MURPHY & Sarah WITHERS located in the Placentia Bay records listed as having a son Thomas MURPHY (m. Martha HUNT) born 1844 in D’Argent Bay. I believe D’Argent Bay is one of the old names for an area around Piper’s Hole. That name doesn’t show very often. In addition, a Martin MURPHY shows up for Sound Island in 1843 having a son Peter (m. Mary RYAN). An examination of the Burin RC Records shows Martin MURPHY and Sarah WITHERS had a son Thomas baptized June 28 1846, on that same day a John MURPHY and Hannah Withers had a child baptized (no doubt related). Interesting of note… on June 27 1846 & June 29 1846 quite a number of known Bay D’Espoir/Indian related families had children baptized in the Burin church.. The following are:
    Jun 27 Baptized Mary of Michael Collier and Elizabeth Organ
    Jun 27 Baptized William of John Hayward and Susanna McDonald
    Jun 27 Baptized Frances of James Organ and Rachel Collier
    Jun 27 Baptized Frances of Edward McDonald and Mary Organ
    Jun 27 Baptized Thomas of William Foote and Jane Crant
    Jun 29 Baptized Margaret of Silas Hull and Susan Allen
    Jun 29 Baptized James of Dennis Long and Margaret Allen
    Jun 29 Baptized William of George Hiskott and Mary Allen
    Jun 29 Baptized David Hiskott a protestant 26 years old

    This signifies that the MURPHY’s were living around these families. I know from family history, the family of John MURPHY & Mary Bridget BROWN lived back and forth between Piper’s Hole & St. Joseph’s, their two daughters are pictured on this page and were known as Indian. If you scroll down the page you will see Jane Hayse (a descendant of theirs) stated that Anastasia would say she grew up in a tilt in Piper’s Hole. No doubt the Murphy’s had a close relationship with the natives in the area, and these records only solidify that. Based on Walter MURPHY & Bridget RYAN’s children’s baptisms, they seem to have spent much time in Little Harbour West (Close to St. Joseph’s). Probably moving back and forth.

    Martin MURPHY & Sarah WITHERS also had Anne baptized 1847.

    John MURPHY & Hannah WITHERS had Mary MURPHY baptized (Aug 15 1843); Note for Mary: following baptisms were around her baptism:
    Aug 9 Baptized Thomas of Thomas Crant and Martha Foote
    Aug 9 Baptized Anne of John Mcdonald and Rebecca Neil
    Aug 10 Baptized Judith of Peter John and Mary Brassil
    Aug 10 Baptized Gabreil of Matthew Brasil and Jinny Barth?
    Aug 13 Baptized Laurence of Laurence Murray? And Mary Chiasty???
    Aug 13 Baptized Marian of John Corbel and Diana Cox
    Aug 14 Baptized Mary of Daniel Bomboo??? And Susan Johns
    Aug 16 Baptized James of James Culliton Bridget Lundrigan (Note Cullitan is a name of Bar Haven).

    John MURPHY & Hannah WITHERS also had John (1848).

    It can also be noted that the names Foote & Crant/Grant show up in both Sandy Harbour, Placentia Bay and in Bay d’Espoir in the 1800s.

    1. I do know that the Hayse family is connected with my patriline emanating from Trinity, TB North-THr, TB South and Piper’s Hole, PB.. I believe that the Hayses in Piper’s Hole descend from Thomas Hayse Sr.. I don’t know for sure where this patriline emanates from, perhaps Placentia-Argentia, PB or even Burin. I do know that the place names Tom Hayse’s Brook and Hayse’s Cove, located N of Indian Cove-Rattling Brook, and south of Birchy Islands & Salmon Hole, near the PHR bridge, as listed on some unpublished maps for the area, and known to local Swift Current community residents, is invariably named after Old Tom Hayse, and his family or direct descendants. As per PB Vital Stats the Culletons are also connected with my patriline from Sound Island, but I don’t know how for sure, but I do know that the place names Culleton’s Strait, where my family lived somewhere south of Bollard’s Town (Muddy Hole), Sound Island and perhaps Bar Haven or Barren Island, and the toponym Culleton’s Pond, northwest of Toby Outlook (Mc Kenukwtik) & south of Shoprock (Huskie Outlook), Indian (Dirty) Scrape and Blackhead derive from this family name. The Culleton’s are one of the early settler names in the PHR area, and are listed in the 1851 Gisbourne Survey and several fisheries petitions for Sound Island (as per NL Gen Web scanned documents). As for the family name Bumbo some Conne River elders I talked to believed that it is a corruption of Benoit [benwa], which became something like [bumwa ~bumbwa~ bumbo] in fast speech. The Martha Hunt that you named may be Martha Pike of Baker’s Cove, between Garden Cove & North Harbour, who married John Hunt 1898 at St. Kyran’s-I’m not sure about that though. Incidentally, some of the Holletts to whom my patriline are related to claim that one of their distant uniparental ancestors, perhaps the wife of John Hollett Jr. cited in Wix 1835 at Salmon Hole, PHR, may have been NA or part-NA. They remember stories of “Indians coming to visit their family”, and hearing stories of an Indian connection going way back to Piper’s Hole. Like Philip Brown, a well-known merchant-middleman of Sound Island & Piper’s Hole, John Hollett, is referenced as trading with the NL Mc at same said place in numerous published references (Howley 1868, NL Railroad Survey JHA 1875). A newspaper article posted on NL Gen Web describes a detailed walk (1844)(http://www.roots web.ancestry.com/~cannf/pb_plnewspaper2.htm) taken by a lone Indian guide from Exploit’s River, NDB to Cape St. Mary’s, while stopping for a night at Mr. Hollett’s. I do know that a direct living descendant has inherited a 1-2 pg vocabulary or word list of suspected NA origin, recorded by a linguist, as spoken by a first-generation descendant of Mr. Hollett. If I recall several historical-comparative linguists examined or investigated this word list and were unsuccessful in assigning it
      to any known language family, either Indo-European or Algonquian, and may be some sort of patois, trade language or pidgin or even a secret language. I do know that the language that Johnnie Martin, of Indian Cove, PHR-Rantem, TB South, spoke was definitely not French but some kind of Indian language-as per my fieldwork recording and field note transcriptions it was definitely NL Mc or Ktaqmkukewi’simk. Charles Jamieson of Swift Current commented on this language as follows “….he burst into a flood of language entirely unitelligible to us” (http://www.rootsweb .ancestry. com/~cannf/pb_pike2.htm). For some reason Johnnie Martin called himself a Frenchman, but all living relatives insist that he looked more Indian. They all point out the photograph of Old John William Paul of Badger’s Brook, as published in the Community History of Grand Falls-Windsor, as bearing a remarkable resemblance. Alphonsus Barrington believed that the Barringtons and Pauls may have been somehow related, but didn’t know how. He did remember a story told to him by his father (Alphonse Barrington Sr.) where one of the Pauls came up to him one time while he was a young man (in Badger Brook) and said “you guys are related to us, you guys are Mountaineers (Mont-Nask from Lab)” (A. Barrington, pers. comm., 2004)-I don’t find that ethnic descriptor surprising given the Lab Mont connection for many NL Mc-Mont families (it may also be a taboo-deformation of referring to the now-extinct NL Red Indian or Beothuk, which were known to have associations with Lab Mont). Some NL Mc elders believe that Johnnie Martin’s father may have come from Conne River, FB. I sincerely think and feel that this opinion is correct given the available evidence at hand. I heard stories growing up that “his father (John Martin Sr.) came over on a boat from Nova Scotia to lay the submarine telegraph line”, “his father might have come from Conne River”, while other stories say “Saint Pierre-Miquelon”, “Piper’s Hole”, “The Horn” (either Quirpon-Cape Norman, or even Conne River), “one of the islands in Placentia Bay”, “the outer coastline [Burin]”, “one of the islands in PB”, “France”, and the list goes on and on ad nauseum. I am convinced that the history of the Martin family at Piper’s Hole-Black River at least, is connected with the electric telegraph line (1859-), and perhaps reflects an even earlier subsistence-settlement pattern of this area by Conne River Mc (cf. Michael Martin listed in the Newman & Co. Little Bay Ledgers, Jean Martin “”garcon montannier” listed in the SPM parish registers,..). I believe the Holletts, Gosneys, (the former marrying 2 Hutchings from Chance Cove, TB South, as per TA records) and Martins learned the skill of telegraph line repairmen from the John families of Conne River-Long Harbour, FB-Piper’s Hole, PB first. Hope this helps.

  7. Hi Devon, I assume that you have studied the multi-volume set of W. P. Doutney’s Family History Records for PB (unpublished) currently held at the RC Basilica Archives, St. John’s. This tome of app. 3-4 bounded parish register records (app. 500-600 pp) consisting of photocopied leaflets has a wealth of data on families from Upper PB extending from St. Kyran’s-Presque northward to Sound Island, with all islands and coastal communities contained therein within that domain. Unless my research survey served me wrong, If I recall specifically there were no references to Barringtons, Johns and Martins from Black River-Piper’s Hole in the original collection, which is unusual given that double copies did survive and were forwarded to NL Civil Registration Vital Statistics (Return of Births, Marriages & Deaths) for PB District. There are a lot of records in there for McCarthy …with most records emanating from Merasheen, Long Island, Red Island, Barren Island, Davis Cove… Apart from what we have on the Barrington patriline through the St. Bernard’s RC parish registers and NL Civil Registration records, we know next to nothing about this patriline (except for official exploration-survey ethnohistoric reports) as it is known in Upper PB (Piper’s Hole-Black River watershed areas), there is very little if any other archival evidence that has survived-Burin RC, KCRC, HGRC records are all silent. As far as I know i don’t think that anyone has found the official baptism certificate of John Barrington yet, and assuming that the family history traditions are correct of a foundling event I sincerely doubt that it will ever be found-on official record at least. So the only thing left beyond the ethnohistoric evidence which is already out in the published public domain, is reconstructed family history-genealogy based on weaving the threads of surviving parish registers and emerging commercial genetic genealogy testing among alleged or putative living descendants. As a postscript, private research laboratories like Max Planck Institute & Reich’s lab at Harvard University have the technology to target 1.5-3.0 million SNPS of aDNA samples through archaeogenetic-bioarchaeological comparative research surveys. These laboratories also have access to Next Gen whole genome sequencing which targets the whole human genome of app. 10,000,000 SNPs, and not just 700,000 like FTDNA, Ancestry DNA,….. The technology is here now to answer some of the genetic genealogy questions with precision that we both tabled, and will be made available to the public domain in the near future at a lower cost. The technology is also now here through Max Planck Institute to analyze aDNA from artefacts and tissue residue in soil samples without excavating or disturbing human remains.

    (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/611711/recovering-ancient-dna-cave-dirt.html)

    Future advances in aDNA technology and eventually commercial genetic genealogy testing, with explorations of “junk DNA” and how it interacts with heritability, will make modern direct-to-consumer, commercial genetic genealogy testing offered by vendors look primitive and antiquated. It will be like comparing arithmetic to Ramanujan’s modular functions or Newtonian Mechanics to Einsteinian Relativity!

  8. Here is a photograph of my great-grandmother Fanny Bow(e) (my mother’s biological mother’s mother, with her mother sitting as a baby at right), reported to be “1/2 Indian”, according to family and community oral traditions at least. Oral traditions state that “they were Indians” and “they came down from Labrador on a schooner”. However, recent atDNA testing has revealed that her biogeographic ethnic origin percentage could have been no more than app. 4.8-6.0% NA/Inuit/Siberian as my mother’s biogeographic ethnic origin percentage is only 1.2% (combined Northern Amerindian, Northern Siberian & South/Central Asian) through DNA Tribes. Closest reference population matches are in Ecuador, Mexico and Greenland Inuit. However, GEDMatch shows higher percentages of combined NA-Siberian in the lower-upper order limits of app. 3.0%-5.0%, while FTDNA and AncestryDNA gives only Finland/Northern Siberia and Finland/NW Russia of app. 3.0-5.0%. As a direct living descendant of this patriline, I feel obligated to comment of the mismatch between genetics, observed facial features attested in surviving photographs and family-community oral traditions, and in so doing to dispel some of the myths surrounding the origins of this enigmatic group, which for some reason has been conflated or mixed up with Labrador Indians (Innuat or Mont-Nask). I am confident in now after reviewing all of the evidence at hand in commenting that the physical type, bone structure or physiognomy is not typical of Amerindian (whether Eastern or Central Algonquian), but is consistent with mixed Lab. Inuit or mixed Western Eurasian-Inuit (Kablunanngajuit, or Metis). After conducting years of research on the matter I am 99.9% confident in stating that at least for the Bowe-Rowe patrilines emanating from Brigus-Cupids, CBN with a known “Indian” (but really distant Inuit) connection to Labrador, it was never NL Mc, but mixed Inuit going back ca. 1780-1800.

    (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cannf/cb_bowephoto.htm)

  9. Hi Devon, here is one more series of transcripts relating to the Brazil-Basque connection at Trinity, TB North-the same family of Brazils residing at Piper’s Hole, PB & Conne River, FB.:

    1818
    Anne Brazil, of Trinity, 1818 (Nfld. Archives, KCRC) (Seary 1988: 33)

    This is the first mention of a Brazil kin group, presumably residing in Trinity Bay North, and may refer to either a daughter of Peter Brazil and Mary Ann (sic.) Brazil (nee Bask [Basque]) referenced in the HGRC Baptism records outlined below, or it may be the wife of Peter Brazil Sr., in which case she may have been going by her middle name Ann(e). If this is the same Peter Brazil as listed in the TA death register for Trinity, TB, then his wife was probably Mary Ann Bask (or Basque), a baptismal record for Catherine Braziel (sic.) [Brazil] of which is listed below:

    1818
    March
    21st Cathn of Braziel Peter & Mary Ann Bask
    Sps Richd Ragan & Cathn English Thos. Ewer (HGRC-Harbour Grace Roman Catholic Baptism parish registers, NL Archives-The Rooms)(http://nl.canadagenweb.org/cb_hgrcmm.htm)

    The next reference for the Brazil patriline comes from the Methodist missionary field notes or diary of Rev. Hickson during the summer of 1820/1 who encountered at small extended kin group of NL Mc at Trinity, TB North. Although the given and family name of the head of household is not explicitly stated, without question or doubt the writer or author was referencing Peter Brazil Sr. who died and was buried in the Trinity Churchyard on Dec. 30, 1821.

    1820/1

    [“Last July”, meaning either July 1820 or 31 July 1821 ?]

    I visited, went to an Indian Wigwam, its inhabitants belonged to the tribe called Micmacks and were Christians. What pleased me most was finding them so forward to speak about God, their souls and heaven. The spoke in broken english, but their language savoured of godly sincerity. The principal of them spoke of the providential care of God over all his creatures saying “dere be ten tousand, & tousands, but got miss none. me been very ill, me thought I might be gone in morning; me lie down here, me not tink get up again; me spect to die; but de goot got mind me gain”. I made enquiries respecting the different parts of his family, and I found he had taken one out of charity. He said “She noting kin me, she noting kin my wife, but all her people go! She left! She perish! me took her, because me wish do some tink for got”. I asked him whether he prayed with them all together, to which he answered “da all want go to heaven, me say prayers load, den da say with me”. I proposed to pray with them, which was gladly received, they pointed me to kneel down, I prayed with as plain words as possible, and when I had done they all expressed their gratitude in their countenances, by clasping their hands and saying “tank you Sir, tank you sir, me never had so goot people come see me before”. I came home much pleased with my visit. This day in the [unclear] human habitation even in an Indian Wigman, I have felt heard and seen God (The end)
    (http://www.math.mun.ca/~dapike/family_h … 20110.html)

    1821

    Peter Brazil, “noted Indian” [presumably Newfoundland Mi’kmaq, or Ktaqmkukewaq] who “died at Trinity but no fixed place of abode”, buried at the St. Paul’s Trinity Anglican cemetary on Dec. 30th 1821, aged 49 [calculated DOB 1772] (http://ngb.chebucto.org/Parish/ang-burials-1821-1826-tb.shtml). The next reference to the reportedly same NL Mc family, this time without mention to a male head-of-household comes from Rev. Walsh’s meeting of a small NL Mc family totalling 5 household members [2 women, 3 children (1 girl, 2 boys)] at Trinity, TB North presumably during the late spring or early summer of 1822. One can infer from the numerical census estimate that the elder woman may indeed the widowed spouse of Peter Brazil Sr. who passed away on Dec. 30, 1821, and the woman with 3 children may in fact have been the adoptee (whether NL Mc-Montagnais, Montagnais or even NL Red Indian….

    1822
    The next mention of this presumably same NL Mc family comes from an excerpt extracted from Dorathy Anger’s book titled No’qwamkisk “Where the Sand Blows……” detailing an encounter between Rev. John Walsh and small group of Micmac (Mi’kmaq) Indians, in 1822 located approximately ¼ of a mile in the woods from the English settlement of Trinity, Trinity Bay, NL, outlined as follows:

    [Start of Extract]
    5, 6, 7. The following three pieces tell us something about the political and community structure of the Micmacs. I will close this letter by giving you the substance of a conversation which I had with an Indian woman… in Trinity. The wigwam in which she and her family were, was about a quarter mile in the woods. It was made of bark, of a conical form, and about twenty feet in circumference. The fire was in the middle of the wigwam, and the top left open, which served for a chimney; and it was only near the centre that we could stand upright. As there were no seats, we sat down upon the ground. There were two women, one girl, and two boys. They were of the tribe of Micmacks from the island of Cape Breton. They had been in different parts of Newfoundland for a considerable time, and subsist partly by mendicity, and partly by making small trinkets which people purchase of them. They are of a Mulatto colour; their clothes in some respects, resemble those worn by the English, except their caps, which, like the wigwams, are in the form of a sugarloaf.

    .. .1 began as follows:-Of what tribe are you? “We be Micmack tribe, from Cape Breton.” Are there many of your tribe in Cape Breton? “Oh yes, great many; me suppose three or four hundred.” Do your people live together in the woods in Cape Breton? “0, we live in towns with merchants.” Do you live in wigwams in Cape Breton? “Yes, but not like dis; dis no good wigwam, we better in Cape Breton, and here be merchant’s hotise, and here be wigwam.” Have you any head-man or chief among you? “0 yes, we have chief in Cape Breton.” What kind of laws have you?

    “0 we very good laws.” But suppose one of your tribe should kill another, what punishment would your chief inflict upon the offender? “0, we never kill one another, ……” But suppose one of your tribe should kill one of your own tribe, what would your chief then do to him. “0 kill him.” If one of your tribe steal from another, what would your chief do to him. “Take something from him.” Have you any priest in Cape Breton? “0 yes, we have priest in Cape Breton; twenty years ago our chief send to Quebec for priest, and Bishop said, You build chapel, and me send you Priest, so we build chapel, and den we get Priest.”
    [End of Extract]

    Primary Source: 1822 Rev. John Walsh, Bonavista, Letter, July 30. In 1982 Naboth Winsor, Hearts Strangely Warmed: A History of Methodism in Newfoundland 1765-1925, vol. 1. Gander: B.S.C. Printers, pp. 79-80.

    Secondary Source: Noqwamkisk Where the Sand Blows-Vignettes of the Bay St. George’s Micmacs
    (http://jasenbenwah.tripod.com/where_the_sand_blows5.htm)

    The presence of Peter Brazil makes sense given the noted occupation of neighboring King’s Cove, BB by other NL Mc families for purposes of visiting a parish priest, and perhaps to exploit economic opportunities such as trading/bartering, and hunting-trapping,… Note the presence of small band of NL Mc residing at or near King’s Cove, BB during the time period 1815-29, as recorded in the KCRC parish registers:

    (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cannf/burin_kcrcmmrc.htm).

    The Brazil family, through the John (Baptiste) and Bernard (Pekitualuet) families that intermarried with each other, are all interconnected and tie in with the Barrington patriline of Piper’s Hole, PB-Conne River, FB.

    Ps. I will give a more detailed synopsis of my atDNA test matches through FTDNA Family Finder showing exact family names and ancient ancestral surnames. Until then I will answer any questions that you may have regarding any area of research study on the reconstructed ethnohistory of Piper’s Hole, PB.. In the coming week I will be preoccupied with work-related duties and will have very little time to respond in full to your queries with the full attention and depth that they amply deserve.

  10. Hi Devon, I read your response re. the Picco connection in Piper’s Hole through the Barrington patriline-thank you for sharing that info. . I suspected that the Ann Picco in question was a d/o J. Barrington Sr.. Yeah it’s nice to know that there are still other researchers like yourself who are actively interested and conducting on-going research in NL Ethnohistory. Your fiery passion for the topic reminds me of myself 10-13 years ago, and is both respectable and commendable-to quote Charles Martijn (pers. comm. 2006-7): “I never seen that type of fiery passion in anyone in a long time” . In so doing I extend the same comment to you.
    Although I no longer conduct primary research in this area of study, due to commitments of starting a family and paying high education debts, that does not detract from the fact that I still have an active interest, concern and passion for this type of research. I would like to see other researchers like yourself take up the torch and carry on the work -you realize and already conceded it’s important to preserve this information for future generations. My role right now is more of an unpaid or volunteer consultant or informant. I will admit that while I know quite a bit about the area of study my humility forces me to concede that I don’t know everything-I too am learning and growing; hence the importance of reciprocal sharing of information. Knowing that, I am more than willing to share whatever information I have on the topic that has already not been shared yet in the public domain. I am an open-minded and learned man open to any questions tabled on the topic, and will do my best to answer the questions to the best of my knowledge or to direct you to informants or consultants who can competently and altruistically do so. As I had a tendency in the past of becoming somewhat consumed in sharing information via e-mail correspondence, going-on-and-on ad nauseum with details and data, I would prefer to keep all dialogue on the topic in the public domain via this blog. Time constraints and other commitments prevent me from exploiting the option of e-mail communication at present-I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience incurred otherwise. Furthermore, in the name of altruism and transparency, I personally think that it is important to put this information out in the open. Regarding the known or attested ethnohistory of Piper’s Hole, the evidence neither warrants nor necessitates full censorship, even when it comes to the somewhat controversial, conjectured RI connection (as I am sure that you are already aware) for the NL Mc-Mont families emanating from there. As this is a NL Mc Family History-Genealogy website blog focus should be on NL Mc-Mont-exclusive of a proposed RI connection going back ca. 1800-(6-7 Gens).

    With regard to the research here are some of my unanswered questions:

    1.) unpublished Barrington oral traditions suggest that John Barrington (a foundling) had an older sister and younger brothers and sisters who were known to have survived-the questions remain did some of these siblings survive into adulthood and what family name(s) did they assume, and if so can current atDNA, YDNA and mtDNA testing verify this distant relationship among putative direct living descendants?;
    2.) the connection between Brigus, CBN and Piper’s Hole, PB has been attested in the written record via parish records and oral family histories where the spouses of John Barrington Sr., Louis John (of Peter John & Ellen Hall/Hann/Haw), and Big John Stevens, were known to emanate from there. The question remains does this partnership exchange network result as the evidence suggests from the mail route survey (1863-4), electric telegraph line maintenance work (1859-) and later NL railroad survey (1875-) or did kinship connections go even deeper in time to ca. 1810-? It has been suspected that the Hawco (Hacquoil/Hocquard) family emanating from Brigus may have been part-Indian (Alphonsus Barrington, Badger, pers. comm., 2004). Note the presence of app. 11 Labrador Indians (whether Lab Innuat (Mont), Innuts (Nask), Inuit, or a mix of either group) residing at Brigus, CBN from 1810-74, referenced in 3 parish register entries and 1 ethnohistoric missionary journal report (Ellis 1819). NL Mc family historian-genealogist believes that the NL John (Baptiste) and Stevens(on) families may be one and the same, with an undocumented family name (patronym) inversion. He also theorizes that the Stevens family from NL may be the same one referenced in Wix’s 1835 journal residing at Venison Tickle (or Island), Labrador, and consequently the same family that Capt. Bartlett brought down from Lab. on a schooner to Brigus in 1819. Coincidentally, my mother’s family descends from this Lab Innuat/Inuit group, and atDNA testing has confirmed this Northern Amerindian distant relationship! The question remains can atDNA and YDNA testing prove this proposed relationship between the John & Stevens patrilines?

    1. Hi PipersHoleMan,
      I suggested email as a form of communication due to many questions still being unanswered about the ancestry and would not like to spread rumours that are just theories of my own of which some may take as fact. It’s also easier to send attachments via email, of which I have many and would love to see whatever you have accumulated. If you are up for email, I would be very okay with you taking your time getting back to me if you have other commitments to make. Once again, thanks for being so willing to share information.
      As for your questions;
      1. There are several ways DNA could verify a relationship between the Barrington siblings. First an Autosomal DNA test from any of the Big Three DNA companies (FTDNA, 23andme & Ancestry), will match cousins. If for example a descendant of John Barrington tested and matched a cousin who was a descendant of a possible sibling of John that would denote a relationship but would not conclusively verify the connection. In order to aid in this, I would use gedmatch.com which is an amazing utility which allows comparisons of chromosomes and how cousins match on those chromosomes. From there I would able to painstakingly determine the Barrington chromosomes and anyone who matches on those segments would be potentially a Barrington descendant. I have successfully done this with my Saunders family. However, there is an easier way to conclusively verify siblings and that is through mtDNA & yDNA. Any male Barrington can her their YDNA tested and if they match another, then they would come from the same Barrington male ancestor. mtDNA helps with sisters. Everyone carries mtDNA from their mother’s mother’s mother etc. If the mtDNA of one person matches another they have the same maternal ancestor within the last few generations (depending on how close the match). So if you suspect one lady is a Barrington sister, you would get a direct female to do a test & if you think another lady is a Barrington sister, you get another direct female to do the test. If they match, they are closely related. However, there is no way to conclusively verify a relationship between brother & sister apart from matching cousins using the autosomal test. It’s all fairly complicated, but the tests work best in conjunction with one another. For example; before doing my Elizabeth Saunders mtDNA test, I noticed several people matching on the same segment of chromosome as descendants of Saunders, I then mapped out their trees and found the common ancestor for all of them was Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard. As Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard’s mtDNA was already completed, I was able to do Elizabeth Saunders’ and they came out as a match with a genetic distance of 0 (within last 200-250 years). Autosomal gave me clues, mtDNA confirmed a relationship.
      2. Speaking about Peter John & Ellen Haw.. I was very recently speaking to a descendant of Elizabeth (Hawe/Haus) who was married to a Thomas Isaac Moulton. Her grandson says she was Mi’kmaq Indian. I found out that Elizabeth’s parents were from Woody Island and had several children baptized there. Her parents were Elias Hawe/Haus & wife Ruth (no maiden name). Ruth has no maiden name but Ruth seems to be a popular first names for several children from that area. Also interesting of note; one of Elias & Ruth’s children were baptized in the Methodist church with a son of John & Ann Williams.. Ann has been said to be Mi’kmaq Indian by the Williams family for years and years, and has been known as Hannah Muriah, Ann Maria, Ann Muriah etc. over the years. No idea of her maiden name also. I think these Haw/Haus could definitely be related to Peter John’s wife Ellen Haw.
      That’s very interesting about the Hawco family possible being of Native descent. I had not known about the 11 Labrador Indians residing at Brigus. Do you happen to have links to these parish records & reports? I know there must be some Labrador Native connection to my Saunders/Hackett family due to the Joseph Hackett showing up in Labrador in the 1820s as a half Indian and then in 1818 in Fortune Bay. As for your question, yes atDNA & YDNA can and will confirm the relationship between the John & Stevens patrilinies fairly easy if you get a male John & a male Stevens to do the test. If they match, they share the same male ancestor.
      I read an interview by Calvin Coish with Jerry Wetzel from Conne River, he speaks of his wifes John & Bernard ancestors coming from Placentia Bay, specifically Swift Current & Piper’s Hole. Very interesting, I also read a rather large thesis from Jerry’s son about the Beothuck and Mi’kmaq that as far as I know isn’t in the public domain. Been trying to contact them both for some time.
      Hope to continue conversing with you! I hope to figure out more and more Placentia & Fortune Bay Mi’kmaq families and put the pieces together.

      1. Hi Devon, thanks for the reply-a wealth of information here. Here are the links re. “Indians” in Brigus parish registers:

        Brigus Methodist Baptisms:

        1809
        Date: No Entry
        Thomas & Marg. (Indians)

        http://ngb.chebucto.org/Vstats/pre-1891-brigus-cupids-meth-bap-1804-1826-p-1-31-pdg.shtml

        Sept. 27, 1848

        Eliz., An Indian girl

        http://ngb.chebucto.org/Vstats/pre-1891-brigus-cupids-meth-bap-1839-1844-p-63-90-pdg.shtml

        Brigus Merthodist Burials:
        Apr. 29, 1874
        Martha Mountane
        (an Indian woman……)

        (http://ngb.chebucto.org/Parish/brigus-burial-3-pdg.shtml)

        Here is Rev. Ellis’s missionary journal report for the baptism of 7 “Labrador Indians” at Brigus in 1819, which appears to refer to Labrador Inuit (or mixed Lab Indian-Inuit) and not Mont-Nask:

        ” ” On the 14th last Oct. I baptized six Labrador Indians in a place called Bearneed, about one mile from this.
        They were brought from thence by a Mr. Barelet [sic], who had been fishing there the past summer. They are all of the same family, consisting of a mother, her daughter, son, son’s wife, and their two children. The one other is John (for that is the Christian name we give him) spake a little English. I was enabled to converse with the rest of them by means of a Mr. Neal who had lived several years on the Labrador coast, where he obtained a knowledge of their language. In talking with them, I found they had some ^a knowledge of God and of his son Jesus Christ our Lord; that they wished to be baptized by a protestant missionary, and to be more fully instructed in the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.
        I should not have administered the rite of Christian baptizm [sic] to them until they had been more fully instructed in the principles of our holy religion, but that I feared their falling into the hands of those who too often embue their mind with uncatholic sentiments, of which I myself am a witness [?besides] in consequence of their being baptized by me, their master had told me, that their instruction shall be left to my direction; so that I shall have an opportunity of teaching them those things which make for their endless felicity and, indeed, they appear willing to learn, and evince a docility which affords me great satisfaction.
        Never was there such a congregation assembled in Bearneed as that which congregated ^collected on the day of their Baptism, as indeed no thing of the like nature had ever been witnessed in this Conception Bay before. And while I was preaching the sense of these simple children of nature and of God, such were the impressions [illegible] upon the transfixed audience that great numbers of them were in tears; and while the looks and gestures of my dear Indians seemed to say Am I not a brother? Are we not Brethren? In falling tears and the sympathetic looks of the large congregation seemed to echo back the same language; at least it seemed to me to be the language of every heart “Yes, we recognize you as our fellow men and as our brethren and kinsmen according to the flesh.
        I intend spending one night in the week with teaching them to read, and hope as they intend returning to their own place in the spring, to send them to the bosom of their own tribe with a Bible in their hands and and in some measure able to understand its holy contents.
        Their dress is of the skin of deer and seals, and there is no difference in the manner of wearing it except, that the coats of the women have long tails hanging down to the ground.
        Both men and women wear pantaloons made by the latter, and to the coat of the women is fixed a hood which they carry their young children. Their face is rather broad, eyes a deep black and their colour approaching that of mahogany, their teeth white and well set, hands small and of a fine symmetry and soft as velvet, in a word they are ^an interesting looking creatures ^people. O that I might be the means of bringing these to God.
        I am revd. Sir
        Yours in love
        Wm. Ellis “”

        (Greg Mitchell, personal communication, 2015)

        Note the family name Mountane seems to be an attempted rendition of Eng. Mountain or Fr. Montagnais. Note the connection of the Peckham and Mountain families at Gilbert’s Bay, Labrador. (http://ngb.chebucto.org/ Vstats/pre-1891-battle-hr-ce-mar-1850-1882-v114-p-1-31-lab.shtml), where several on-line references give Peckham as half-Innu (Mont-Nask). I personally think that the Peckham-Mountain extended kin group are mixed Anglo-Irish & Inuit-Innuat (Mont-Nask). A similar argument can be extended for the Schelmock family that married into the Stevens patriline of Venison Island (or Tickle), Labrador. While at face value the patronym Schelmock appears to be of Inuktitut/Inuttut origin, note the similarly transcribed Mont family name Shelmok that appears in the Tadoussac (Ktatusaq) RC (Montagnais Indian mission) parish registers from the late 1600s-late 1700s, where it appears to be listed as “Indian” or “Esquimaux Indian”. According to Speck’s ethnohistoric research the Southern Lab Inuit once ranged as far south as Northern NL (Quirpon-Cape Norman) and Quebec North Shore as far as Sept Isles (Ua:sha:t) as late as the 1600-1700s. If I recall correctly based on my university undergraduate studies research Henriksen (1973) (Hunters in the Barrens:….) argued that app. 1/4 of Naskapi from Davis Inlet were of mixed Inuit ancestry, given the connections through intermarriage between Mushuau Innuts and East Cree of Kawawachikamach, near Schefferville, Que., with neighbouring Inuit from coastal northen Lab. & Kuujuaq, Que.. It makes sense that the Inuit and Innuat would have intermarried during the precontact and later contact periods, as they shared converging hunting-fishing domains at times. Hope this helps.

        Hope this helps.

        1. Hi Devon, I don’t know if you have this link for a early-to-mid twentieth century NL Mc connection at Port Hope Simpson, Lab.. This more recent settlement pattern may reflect a deeper, more ancient trend perhaps predating to the early-contact period:
          (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cannf/lab_mikmawbap.htm)

          Note the birth of Mary Ann Louis (1829-1891) d/o Joseph Louis, Mi’kmaq, (probably a relative of John Lewis, variously described as “Mohawk Metis”, Abenaki or Micmac, in various historical sources, who guided for the Beothuck Institute), and Sarah, an Inuk, born at Dumpling (Kennedy 2015:143-145).

          Kennedy, John C. 2015. Encounters: An Anthropological History of Southeastern Labrador. McGill-Queen’s University Press (Google Books on-line).

          The case study of the Louis (or Lewis ) patriline suggests an earlier NL Mc migration-settlement pattern to SE Labrador, as part of an extensive Mi’kmaq domain.

      2. Hi Devon, I will respond to the atDNA comments in the coming 2-3 days okay. Interestingly I have many NL Mc matches through FTDNA Family Finder, ranging from 2nd-5th cousin matches, which was suprising, but not shocking, which brings a shared common uniparental ancestor back to ca. 1800 (5-6 Gens). Joe & Matthews are the common ancient ancestral thread uniting all of these kin groups in my personal matches. Until then.

    2. In addition to my previous comment I came across my old notes. In it I stated that a source had said: “(Sc.4) When Annie Barrington married Ambrose Picco, another man came by the name of Tom Hawco, who had something to do with Swift Current also. John Barrington & Mary Hawco. Tom died in an August Gale (From death records, he drowned on Aug 25, 1927).”

      1. Interestingly, I too am related to the Hawcos of Chapel’s Cove-Holyrood, Harbour Main, CBN, though my father’s mother’s (Williams) side-its supposedly the same group. Hawco shows up as a 2nd-3rd cousin match on FTDNA Family Finder. Through recently discovered affidavit wills & registered ship captain registries, the Hawco family of CBN is definitely of Jersey extraction. The family name Also (Hawco) w/o John Barrington as listed in the St. Bernard’s RC parish registers makes sense given the prevalence of h-dropping at the left-edge of prosodic words, through many NL Anglo-Irish speech communities, as are l-/r- insertion in stressed long vowel initial syllables. The grapheme pronounced as [s] suggests that John Barrington was familiar with and/or partly fluent in St. Pierre-Miquelon or Acadian French, as the orthographic was pronounced as Fr. (with cidella under c) (cf. Fr. garcon “boy”). Through our personal correspondence, William Duggan talked a bit about Mary Hawco, and how some people believed that she may have been of part-Indian descent. It has been speculated that Mary Hawco and Mary Whelan (perhaps Fr. Huelin) were related, being perhaps cousins or sisters. I often heard Alphonse Barrington saying that “Mary Hawco was more of an Indian than old John Barrington”. I don’t know if he meant that she lived more of an Indian lifestyle, or if she looked more Indian. As a side note Alphonse Barrington could remember as a young boy travelling with his family from Badger Brook, Exploit’s River, NDB, to go and visit poor Duncan, his Aunt Polly (Mary) (m. George Crocker) and his grandmother. He could remember getting off the train and walking down to Cape Pine, near Kilmory Resort, Swift Current, waiting on the shore for his uncle Duncan to come over in his canoe (shallop or dory) to pick them up while they were waiting on the shore. The old Barrington family residence or homestead at that time was located at the south end of Brown’s Island (aka Johnnie Martin’s Land), located near the isthmus or peninsula facing Mooring Cove on the east end and Indian Cove on the west end.-app. 30-40 ft. south of John Martin Sr.’s homestead. Note that Indian Cove was situated at the mouth of Rattling Brook, which flowed from the highland of Black Duck Brook, which emanated from Black Duck Pond, eastern side of Toby’s (Fr. Toupie, fr. Tompic) Outlook. The old Indian trail or path extended in a NW direction from Indian Cove, along the west side of Rattling Brook-Black Duck Brook, going inland past Culleton’s Pond and Blackhead-Indian Scrape. In addition to the Telegraph Line route as pathways into the interior taken by Indian travelers, this was perhaps the older Indian trail going into the interior of the island, extending to Exploit’s River in a NW direction through Bay de Nord Wilderness Reserve. Poor Duncan relocated from Indian Cove following the death of his mother and according to some oral traditions his first and only wife/fiance, who is reportedly buried under an apple tree across the river. He then moved in with his sister Polly and niece near George Crocker’s old homestead. Not without tears in his eyes, Alphonse talked a lot about his uncle who he affectionately called Poor Old Duncan. He told me a lot about him which some day I will share in the public domain. As you may know Mary Hawco’s Road in Conne River is named after the w/o John Barrington Sr.. I am quite certain now that the adoptive family of John Barrington Sr. (NL Mc-Mont) emanated from the King’s Cove, BB area, near Trinity, TB North (as per KCRC parish registers). I have located and corresponded with a direct living descendant from this patriline who have corroborated a family story of an Indian connection and hereditary professions as noted surveyors. So this brings the Barrington patriline closer to Trinity, TB North where a small NL Mc extended kin group (Brazils-Basques) of app. 6-7 resided during the time period 1817-22. I would have Brazil as the older family of NL Mc-Mont residing at Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole. The evidence explains how the Johns and Bernards, as well as perhaps Mitchells, tie into the Piper’s Hole watershed area. Hope this helps.

  11. I don’t known if you have any of this information on the Piccos as connected to John Barrington & Mary Hawco of Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole, PB, as cited from the NL 1921 Census of Swift Current:

    DOD (Date of Death) Sept 16, 1907
    POD (Place of Death) Piper’s Hole
    COD (Cause of Death) consumption
    Surname Picco
    Given Names Ann
    Religious Denomination Roman Catholic
    Age 28 years
    POB (Place of Birth) Pipers Hole
    POI (Place of Internment) Sound Island

    (http://ngb.chebucto.org/Vstats/death-reg-bk-5-1908-1910-psm.shtml)

    Picco
    Beatrice
    F
    Grandaughter
    Single
    Not at home
    Age Guessed
    5
    Swift Current
    [page 340]
    (http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1921/21-swift-current-psm.shtml)

    I don’t know if and/or how these PB Piccos tie into with the FB ones. At face value, the evidence seems to suggest some kind of connection and/or relationship between both family groups. Alphonsus Barrington Jr. of Badger Brook, Exploit’s River, NDB believed that the Piccos and Barringtons were somehow related but he didn’t know how the connection came about (Alphonse Barrington, personal communication, Badger, 2003-4). Hope this helps.

      1. Anytime Dorothy, you are very much welcome, and thank you for posting this information. I thoroughly enjoy reading all of your blog posts and commentaries on NL Mc family history-genealogy, as they are very informative, enlightening and insightful, as well as highly detailed and researched. Your research efforts and hard work are commendable and acknowledged in preserving this information for future generations. Furthermore, I would be more than happy to share any information that I have relating to the reconstructed ethnohistory and ancient human population history of the Piper’s Hole-Black River watershed areas. Through app. 25 years of fieldwork and research in this area, plus an ancient family connection to this beautiful area of NL, I have amassed a sizable corpus of information in this area of research study-most of which has already been shared in the public domain-but admittedly there are still many gaps, unanswered questions and dangling loose threads in connecting the data-hence the importance of research like Mr. Griffin’s. His research is equally and if not more important in educating the general public on the attested NL Mc connections in the Terrenceville-Long Harbour, Fortune Bay area. In addition to honoring and recognizing direct living descendants from this area with patrilines-matrilines emanating from Conne River (NL Mc Miawpukek, Br Le Cornu “The Horn”) through comparative archival “paper trail” research and “direct-to-consumer” commercial genetic genealogy testing (mtDNA HVR I-II, YDNA STR-SNP, atDNA), his work has implications for meshing together the missing “pieces of the puzzle” in reconstructing the ancient human migration and settlement history extending from Conne River, FB to Piper’s Hole (Fr. Baie L’argent), PB.. His research has implications for historic commemoration programs in the Long Harbour River, FB area, in partnership with Miawpukek, such as commemorative plaques, walking trail and/or lookout point NL Mc community history interpretation signs, a website and, of course, a book. I look fwd to one day seeing more publications by Mr. Griffin, and of course a publication on John family history-a most interesting topic in and of itself. Once again Dorothy thank you very much for posting this blog on FB Mi’kmaq, it is much appreciated and long overdue. Please do keep up the excellent work, it is duly noted and much respected.
        Namaste

        1. Hello there,
          Thanks for the kind words, the importance of keeping this history alive is very important not only for the family but for the communities as a whole. You seem very knowledgeable about the area and the persons who lived there. Would love to hear more from you on the topic of the families and hope to put together the pieces of the puzzle even more so, I’ve been looking for a another researcher of this area for years but have not been able to contact one. I would like more specific information on the families in Piper’s Hole. I would like to email you, perhaps Dorothy can email you my email so we can correspond? Thanks in Advance!

          As for the Picco’s you mentioned; Ann Picco who died in 1907 was originally Annie Barrington. She was the first wife of Ambrose Picco, son of Phillip Picco & Eliza Young. Ambrose was the nephew of the Mary Jane (Picco) Hanrahan who is pictured in this article. I believe I have a photo of Ambrose, but will have to check to see.

          I remember seeing Beatrice Picco before, but I cannot remember her parents names and for some reason I do not have it written down. Will try and find the information if you need it!

          Thanks Again
          Hope to hear from you!

  12. Here is a link for a photograph (Penney 2015: 9) dated 1872 of John Barrington Sr. (1825-1928) (of Black River-Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole River, PB & Conne River, FB) taken at the Heart’s Content Anglo-American electric telegraph station, TB North, standing in background at left behind a NL Mc birchbark canoe (maskwikwitn), along with Big John Stevens (of Halls Bay-Brigus, CBN), standing in foreground at right holding a canoe paddle (l’nui’pi), so as to give readers an idea of what the physical type or physiognomy of the Barrington patriline looked like. Mr. Barrington would have been app. 46-7 years of age at the time of the photograph. The caption of the photograph as excerpted is titled: ““Hearts Content, Newfoundland. 2 Mich mac Indians & Canoe. S.H. Davis March 24th 1872” (Western Union Archives, New York). John Barrington and Big John Stevens”. This is the same photograph published in the book “Connecting the Continents:Heart’s Content and the Atlantic Cable”, Ted Rowe (2009), and as far as the present researcher is aware presents the only known photograph of John Barrington Sr. to currently exist or to have survived at least where he has been positively identified-a most intriguing and beautiful photograph to say the least showing details of NL Mc clothing and material culture for this era. I hope this helps.

    Source: GPALT (Gerald Penney Associates Limited). 2015. James P. Howley, “the birth of Newfoundland archaeology, and the end of history”.
    (https://nlasarchsociety.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/gerry-penney-howley-nov-2015.pdf)

  13. Hello Dorothy : I am admin. of the Facebook Groups “Burgeo’s Past” and “Newfoundland Grand Banks” . We have been collecting information & pictures on the “Saunders”, “Rhymes” & “Picco” in the Group for the last 7 years. Esau Rhymes from Burgeo,NL. who married Ann Saunders , was married at Burgeo,NL. where they lived and raised their family. You can see all the information on the Family in “Burgeo’s Past” at this Link: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.10152654013457695&type=3

    1. Hi John, thanks for letting me know about your Facebook groups. I’m sure other readers will want to check them out too. And, if you didn’t see it, here’s a link to a post about Howard Blackburn, Tommy Welsh and the Lushmans that I wrote. In it, there’s a link to the Dec. 1912 Nf Quarterly “A Tale of the Sea” about Blackburn and Welsh that I transcribed. I had read Earl Pilgrim’s “Drifting into Doom” and was very taken with the story! :)

  14. Very interesting. My maternal grandmother was Susannah Saunders from Harbour Mille in Fortune Bay. She married Jacob Scott from the nearby community of Little Harbour East where they resided and raised a large family.

    1. Hi Marjorie, thanks for adding some names and places to the Saunders story. Any thoughts on Catherine Banfield, asked about by Eva yesterday?

      1. I believe she was from Southern Harbour and was a Mansfield not a Banfield, but I haven’t thoroughly researched the family. There were Mansfields in Southern Harbour and area. His brother married a Dawe I believe from Brigus?

    2. Hi Marjorie,

      Your Susannah (Saunders) Scott was the daughter of James Saunders & Maria Brown, granddaughter of George Saunders and his first wife Ann.

      Do you happen to know anything about your grandfather Jacob Scott’s mother Lavinia (Pardy) Scott. I have a friend looking for information on her. Thanks!!

  15. Jane Saunders (m. Timothy McCarthy), are my great grandparents, my mother who was born on Woods Island in the Bay of Islands these were her father’s (John McCarthy) parents

      1. Missing a generation in between. John McCarthy’s parents were Daniel McCarthy & Elizabeth Jane Thornhill. Daniel’s parents were Jane Saunders & Tim McCarthy.. For a little bit of information on Daniel, he got into an altercation with John Rideout (the first Rideout in Terrenceville) in 1894 after Rideout was taunting Daniel while he was rowing out in his punt for being “dirty skinned”. A derogatory term for being of Native descent. This is according to the arresting officer at the time. It seems John was an often an instigator from the interviews with witnesses which included Daniel’s father Tim McCarthy, John Rideout’s wife Catherine (McCarthy) Rideout, John McCarthy (Mary Hynes, daughter of Elizabeth Saunders’s husband) and others.

        1. Not sure how to post this in the comments but trying to post a picture of Timothy McCarthy, son of Daniel McCarthy & Elizabeth Jane Thornhill.

        2. Hi Devon, email me the pic. I think I can attach it to your comment. If not, I’ll put it in the post. And thanks for the extra info.

  16. Reading with interest! I am the baby in the picture with Anastasia Smith Murphy. John Murphy and Mary Murphy Brown were my Gr.Grandparents. I was brought up by my grandmother . She told us she was “reared up” in a tilt in Pipers Hole….which is in Swift Current area, even though her home was St. Joseph’s P.B. Many of her siblings settled in Parkers Cove after she did including her mother.

    1. Hi Jane, it’s so nice to hear from the baby! Thank you so much for writing, and for telling us more about your grandmother.

  17. My Greatgrandmother was Catherine Mansfield or Banfield from Southen Harbour PB. She married Louis John of Conne River had 4 sons.. Also John Barrington was born in Conne River moved to Swift Current/Piper Hole. Louis died in 1904, n his 80’s. Catherine died in 1942 buried at Conne River. Cannot find any info on her. My other side of the family involves the Joe’s.

    1. Hi Eva, I’ve tried to find out about Catherine Mansfield/Banfield too, and no luck. There’s lots of Banfields in Bay L’Argent and Garnish, according to googling I just did. That seems possible for her, geographically. But I can’t find any connection. Maybe somebody reading this will be able to help us out. Hope so!

    2. I believe she was from Southern Harbour and was a Mansfield not a Banfield, but I haven’t thoroughly researched the family. There were Mansfields in Southern Harbour and area. His brother married a Dawe I believe from Brigus?

      1. I was told by several family sources that Old Johnnie Martin (John Martin Jr.) (b. ca. 1875-1885, either Black River or Piper’s Hole, PB), a telegraph line repairman, of Rantem, TBSouth-Black River-Piper’s Hole, PB, worked on the (telegraph) line from Rantem, TB to Sandy Harbour River, PB, with Neddie (Edward) and Jimmie (James) Mansfield of Southern Harbour, PB. In addition to working with them on the telegraph line, they were also known to trap and hunt together in the Black River-Piper’s Hole watershed areas during the late 1800s to early 1900s. Johnnie Martin also worked with Nathaniel Hollett (of Black River, PB & Rantem, TBSouth) and the G(o)osneys of Black River-Pipers Hole, PB, both of whom served as telegraph line repairmen. Although it cannot be proven at present, I assume that both Edward & James Mansfield are either nephews of great-nephews of the Catherine Mansfield (wife of Lewis John) listed above. Alphonse Barrington Jr. of Badger Brook also believed that Catherine John (wife of Lewis John) was a Mansfied and not a Banfield. I suspect that the apparent mix up or confusion derived from one of two causative factors, namely: 1.) low perceptual salience between m and p among some Mc speakers, where both speech segments are oftentimes confused especially at left-edge prosodic words (cf., Mary (Molly) Barrington, pronounced as Polly Barrington among some Barrington direct descendants and Swift Current community residents & Mc etyma such as [m]tlu’tew ‘smoke’ transcribed as [p]tlutew~[n]tlutew~[k]tlutew, where the m~p~t~k alternation is common throughout the Mc dialect continuum; and 2.) the existence of Banfields in Long Harbour River, FB area with a similar sounding family name, the oral traditions of family origins became conflated. Coincidentally, Duncan Barrington (1905-1972/3), so John Barrington & Mary Hawco (sic. Also), the last member of the Barrington patriline to uphold and defend the traditional Indian way of living or lifestyle, and the last to reside at Indian Cove (Browns Island or Johnnie Martin’s Land) is buried in an unmarked plot at the Southern Harbour, PB.. As an endnote, it is interesting to note the connection between the John and Hollett families of Piper’s Hole, PB and Rantem, TB South; cf. Cath’n [Catherine] John, d. Jan. 17, 1910, POD Glenwood, POB Rantem [TB], POBurial Glenwood, aged 32 (RC) [DOB 1878] (http://ngb.chebucto.org/Vstats/death-reg-bk-5-1902-1910-tw.shtml). William P. Duggan, noted NL Mc family historian and genealogist believes that Catherine John [nee Hollett] was the first wife of William (Billy) John (brother of Louis John, s/o Peter John & Ellen Hall/Hann) and daughter of John (Jack) Hollett of Piper’s Hole, PB. (Bill Duggan, personal communication, 2010). If you have not previously corresponded with William P. Duggan, a specialist on John family history and a direct descendant of same said family, I would highly recommend that you contact him as he is a wealth of information on the topic. He informed me that it is his intention to publish a book on the matter in the foreseeable future. Communication with him in the near future might assist you in filling in some of the gaps in reconstructed John family history-genealogy.

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