Fortune Bay NL

Devon Griffin wrote the following about Fortune Bay and the family of Elizabeth Saunders. He sent it as a comment on Newfoundland Mi’kmaq Family History. But with so much information that people are seeking, I asked if I could post it on its own. He kindly agreed and provided photos.

google map of Fortune bay
Fortune Bay: English Harbour East right of centre, Terrenceville far right. Click to enlarge

Martha Murphy Hynes

Martha Murphy’s parents were Walter Murphy & Bridget Ryan of Oderin and Little Harbour West, Placentia Bay. She had several siblings. (Martha married Joseph Hynes, son of Elizabeth Saunders and Thomas Hynes. After Martha’s death, Joseph married Mary Smith, daughter of John Smith and Elizabeth Vaters of Davis Island.)

Martha died on Feb 28 1884 in English Harbour East, and she’s buried in St. Bernard’s (The only RC cemetery on that side of Fortune Bay at the time) and her headstone still exists there.

Mary Bridget (Murphy) Barron, d/o John Murphy
Mary Bridget (Murphy) Barron, d/o John Murphy

I’m currently working on the Murphy family as it seems there was some Mi’kmaq blood in the family, but we are unsure how. They had some affiliation with native people in the Swift Current area in the early- to mid-1800s. If you look at Martha’s brother John Murphy’s daughters, they are very Mi’kmaq in appearance.

Smiths and Hacketts

Anastasia (Murphy) Smith, d/o John Murphy, with grandchild
Anastasia (Murphy) Smith, d/o John Murphy, with grandchild

Elizabeth (also known as Betsy) Smith Hackett’s parents were William Smith & Elizabeth Whittle. She married William Hackett. He died on May 17 1884 in English Harbour East according to Gertrude Crosbie’s transcription of NL Newspapers. Betsy’s sister Martha Smith married William Hackett’s brother, Thomas Hackett.

There also is some speculation about an early connection between the Hacketts and the Saunders. A Joseph Hackett was in Fortune Bay in 1818 according to the Keith Matthews collection at the Maritime History Archive. Dorothy, I’m not sure if you have seen it before but there was a Joseph Hackett in Labrador in the 1820s recorded as a half-Indian. Interesting the name shows up in both places.

Elizabeth Saunders Family

Also, more information on the Saunders. Elizabeth (Saunders) Hynes was indeed of Mi’kmaq origin. Her parents were John and Elizabeth Saunders, and were noted in court records for 1810/1811 as having saved a young servant girl Margaret Doyle from her master Michael Gorman. He was abusing her at Terrenceville (then known as Fortune Bay Bottom). They took her into their home and protected her from him.

Elizabeth Saunders and Thomas Hynes family D Stewart
Click to enlarge. Circled names are people in photos here.

DNA connection with Elizabeth Joe

We recently conducted a mtDNA test, which is your direct maternal line (your mother’s mother’s mother etc.), on John Saunders’ wife Elizabeth. We do not have a maiden name for her yet. The test came back and she shares a direct maternal line with Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard of the Bay of Islands [wife of William Blanchard].

As many know, Elizabeth Joe was Mi’kmaq and has been speculated to be Thomas Joe’s daughter or some relation to him. It’s also believed Mary Park Brooks was Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard’s sister and was Mi’kmaq. We’re working on getting an mtDNA test for a descendant of hers to prove that.

The mtDNA test showed that Elizabeth Saunders and Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard share a direct maternal line with a genetic distance of 0. That means it’s very recent (within the last 200-250 years), so the most likely scenarios are that they were sisters, aunt and niece or first cousins on the maternal side.

It’s pretty interesting to be able to connect two women who were known to be Mi’kmaq. If Mary Park Brooks mtDNA test comes back as sharing a direct maternal line also, it provides a little proof to their connection as I believe in the 1838/1839 list of inhabitants it says she was from Burin originally and is also where Elizabeth Saunders frequented.

John and Elizabeth Saunders, Terrenceville

Albert Saunders s/o George Saunders and Ann Baker
Albert Saunders s/o George Saunders and Ann Baker (click to enlarge)

John & Elizabeth Saunders had the following children: Elizabeth Saunders (m. Thomas Hynes), Richard (Dickie) Saunders (m. Joanna Clarke), Catherine Saunders (m. James Picco), Ann Saunders (m. Esau Rhymes), George Saunders (m. (1) Ann Unknown (2) Ann Baker), Jane Saunders (m. Timothy McCarthy), & Joseph Saunders (m. Mary Jane Myles). There could possibly be more, but that’s what has been confirmed over the years.

The area of Terrenceville in Fortune Bay was highly frequented by the Mi’kmaq up until the mid-1870s (the story of why they stopped travelling there is a whole few paragraphs of its own). The Saunders and their descendants ended up staying there and settling.

Lavhey family, Terrenceville

Another prominent Mi’kmaq woman who stayed in Terrenceville was Elizabeth, married to Lewis Lavhey. Apparently she was a Bernard originally. Their descendants, especially through their daughter Grace (m. Samuel Coombs), live on in the area.

Picco family and ships

The Piccos were also a very frequent Mi’kmaq family in the area and as you can see one of them (James Picco) married Catherine Saunders. They have been in the area of Fortune Bay for hundreds of years. Apparently the matriarch of that family died in 1844 (according to a family history story published in the 1960s) over a hundred years old and was a great great great grandmother. By that point, she lived in St. Joseph’s, Placentia Bay (then known as Gallow’s Harbour).

Mary Jane (Picco) Hanrahan, daughter-in-law and granddaughter
Mary Jane (Picco) Hanrahan, daughter-in-law and granddaughter

I have heard rumours and old family history that the Mi’kmaq Picco (often spelled Peaco or Pico) originally came from Nova Scotia. Dr. Leslie Harris, former president of MUN, stated in his book ‘Growing up with Verse’ that James Picco & Catherine Saunders’ son John Picco had Mi’kmaq blood, and that it was often talked about. The Piccos are a large family, but there haven’t been a lot of records concerning them. Seems James & Catherine lived in Fortune Bay at one point before moving to St. Joseph’s, and their son John was born there in 1841 according to his death record & Leslie Harris’ book.

James Hackett s/o Elizabeth Hynes and Michael Hackett
James Hackett, s/o Elizabeth Hynes and Michael Hackett, lost on the Donald Silver Jan. 1924

There are lots of ships registered for the Piccos from Fortune Bay. Behind English Harbour East (home of Elizabeth Saunders Hynes) there is also a place called Piccos Woods. I have recorded a Phillip Picco, Joseph Picco etc. trading with Newman and Co. in the 1790s out of Little Bay & Harbour Breton. As it’s known, natives typically moved around a lot for different reasons. The Piccos were no different, going between Bay d’Espoir, Fortune Bay and Placentia Bay.

John Family

Louis John and family also frequented the Long Harbour, Fortune Bay and Terrenceville areas, Peter John (his son) was born in Belleoram around the 1810s and one of the John men was a telegraph operator in Terrenceville.

Lots of more information if anyone is interested. I could go on forever. Still lots to figure out but we’ve definitely made some progress over the past few years putting things together. Hopefully someday we’ll map out all the Mi’kmaq of Fortune and Placentia Bays. DNA is a welcome assistant to our research and we encourage everyone to get a DNA test to find your cousins!

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30 thoughts on “Fortune Bay NL”

  1. Hi Devon, I read your response re. the Picco connection in Piper’s Hole through the Barrington patriline-thank you for sharing that info. . I suspected that the Ann Picco in question was a d/o J. Barrington Sr.. Yeah it’s nice to know that there are still other researchers like yourself who are actively interested and conducting on-going research in NL Ethnohistory. Your fiery passion for the topic reminds me of myself 10-13 years ago, and is both respectable and commendable-to quote Charles Martijn (pers. comm. 2006-7): “I never seen that type of fiery passion in anyone in a long time” . In so doing I extend the same comment to you.
    Although I no longer conduct primary research in this area of study, due to commitments of starting a family and paying high education debts, that does not detract from the fact that I still have an active interest, concern and passion for this type of research. I would like to see other researchers like yourself take up the torch and carry on the work -you realize and already conceded it’s important to preserve this information for future generations. My role right now is more of an unpaid or volunteer consultant or informant. I will admit that while I know quite a bit about the area of study my humility forces me to concede that I don’t know everything-I too am learning and growing; hence the importance of reciprocal sharing of information. Knowing that, I am more than willing to share whatever information I have on the topic that has already not been shared yet in the public domain. I am an open-minded and learned man open to any questions tabled on the topic, and will do my best to answer the questions to the best of my knowledge or to direct you to informants or consultants who can competently and altruistically do so. As I had a tendency in the past of becoming somewhat consumed in sharing information via e-mail correspondence, going-on-and-on ad nauseum with details and data, I would prefer to keep all dialogue on the topic in the public domain via this blog. Time constraints and other commitments prevent me from exploiting the option of e-mail communication at present-I sincerely apologize for any inconvenience incurred otherwise. Furthermore, in the name of altruism and transparency, I personally think that it is important to put this information out in the open. Regarding the known or attested ethnohistory of Piper’s Hole, the evidence neither warrants nor necessitates full censorship, even when it comes to the somewhat controversial, conjectured RI connection (as I am sure that you are already aware) for the NL Mc-Mont families emanating from there. As this is a NL Mc Family History-Genealogy website blog focus should be on NL Mc-Mont-exclusive of a proposed RI connection going back ca. 1800-(6-7 Gens).

    With regard to the research here are some of my unanswered questions:

    1.) unpublished Barrington oral traditions suggest that John Barrington (a foundling) had an older sister and younger brothers and sisters who were known to have survived-the questions remain did some of these siblings survive into adulthood and what family name(s) did they assume, and if so can current atDNA, YDNA and mtDNA testing verify this distant relationship among putative direct living descendants?;
    2.) the connection between Brigus, CBN and Piper’s Hole, PB has been attested in the written record via parish records and oral family histories where the spouses of John Barrington Sr., Louis John (of Peter John & Ellen Hall/Hann/Haw), and Big John Stevens, were known to emanate from there. The question remains does this partnership exchange network result as the evidence suggests from the mail route survey (1863-4), electric telegraph line maintenance work (1859-) and later NL railroad survey (1875-) or did kinship connections go even deeper in time to ca. 1810-? It has been suspected that the Hawco (Hacquoil/Hocquard) family emanating from Brigus may have been part-Indian (Alphonsus Barrington, Badger, pers. comm., 2004). Note the presence of app. 11 Labrador Indians (whether Lab Innuat (Mont), Innuts (Nask), Inuit, or a mix of either group) residing at Brigus, CBN from 1810-74, referenced in 3 parish register entries and 1 ethnohistoric missionary journal report (Ellis 1819). NL Mc family historian-genealogist believes that the NL John (Baptiste) and Stevens(on) families may be one and the same, with an undocumented family name (patronym) inversion. He also theorizes that the Stevens family from NL may be the same one referenced in Wix’s 1835 journal residing at Venison Tickle (or Island), Labrador, and consequently the same family that Capt. Bartlett brought down from Lab. on a schooner to Brigus in 1819. Coincidentally, my mother’s family descends from this Lab Innuat/Inuit group, and atDNA testing has confirmed this Northern Amerindian distant relationship! The question remains can atDNA and YDNA testing prove this proposed relationship between the John & Stevens patrilines?

    1. Hi PipersHoleMan,
      I suggested email as a form of communication due to many questions still being unanswered about the ancestry and would not like to spread rumours that are just theories of my own of which some may take as fact. It’s also easier to send attachments via email, of which I have many and would love to see whatever you have accumulated. If you are up for email, I would be very okay with you taking your time getting back to me if you have other commitments to make. Once again, thanks for being so willing to share information.
      As for your questions;
      1. There are several ways DNA could verify a relationship between the Barrington siblings. First an Autosomal DNA test from any of the Big Three DNA companies (FTDNA, 23andme & Ancestry), will match cousins. If for example a descendant of John Barrington tested and matched a cousin who was a descendant of a possible sibling of John that would denote a relationship but would not conclusively verify the connection. In order to aid in this, I would use gedmatch.com which is an amazing utility which allows comparisons of chromosomes and how cousins match on those chromosomes. From there I would able to painstakingly determine the Barrington chromosomes and anyone who matches on those segments would be potentially a Barrington descendant. I have successfully done this with my Saunders family. However, there is an easier way to conclusively verify siblings and that is through mtDNA & yDNA. Any male Barrington can her their YDNA tested and if they match another, then they would come from the same Barrington male ancestor. mtDNA helps with sisters. Everyone carries mtDNA from their mother’s mother’s mother etc. If the mtDNA of one person matches another they have the same maternal ancestor within the last few generations (depending on how close the match). So if you suspect one lady is a Barrington sister, you would get a direct female to do a test & if you think another lady is a Barrington sister, you get another direct female to do the test. If they match, they are closely related. However, there is no way to conclusively verify a relationship between brother & sister apart from matching cousins using the autosomal test. It’s all fairly complicated, but the tests work best in conjunction with one another. For example; before doing my Elizabeth Saunders mtDNA test, I noticed several people matching on the same segment of chromosome as descendants of Saunders, I then mapped out their trees and found the common ancestor for all of them was Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard. As Elizabeth (Joe) Blanchard’s mtDNA was already completed, I was able to do Elizabeth Saunders’ and they came out as a match with a genetic distance of 0 (within last 200-250 years). Autosomal gave me clues, mtDNA confirmed a relationship.
      2. Speaking about Peter John & Ellen Haw.. I was very recently speaking to a descendant of Elizabeth (Hawe/Haus) who was married to a Thomas Isaac Moulton. Her grandson says she was Mi’kmaq Indian. I found out that Elizabeth’s parents were from Woody Island and had several children baptized there. Her parents were Elias Hawe/Haus & wife Ruth (no maiden name). Ruth has no maiden name but Ruth seems to be a popular first names for several children from that area. Also interesting of note; one of Elias & Ruth’s children were baptized in the Methodist church with a son of John & Ann Williams.. Ann has been said to be Mi’kmaq Indian by the Williams family for years and years, and has been known as Hannah Muriah, Ann Maria, Ann Muriah etc. over the years. No idea of her maiden name also. I think these Haw/Haus could definitely be related to Peter John’s wife Ellen Haw.
      That’s very interesting about the Hawco family possible being of Native descent. I had not known about the 11 Labrador Indians residing at Brigus. Do you happen to have links to these parish records & reports? I know there must be some Labrador Native connection to my Saunders/Hackett family due to the Joseph Hackett showing up in Labrador in the 1820s as a half Indian and then in 1818 in Fortune Bay. As for your question, yes atDNA & YDNA can and will confirm the relationship between the John & Stevens patrilinies fairly easy if you get a male John & a male Stevens to do the test. If they match, they share the same male ancestor.
      I read an interview by Calvin Coish with Jerry Wetzel from Conne River, he speaks of his wifes John & Bernard ancestors coming from Placentia Bay, specifically Swift Current & Piper’s Hole. Very interesting, I also read a rather large thesis from Jerry’s son about the Beothuck and Mi’kmaq that as far as I know isn’t in the public domain. Been trying to contact them both for some time.
      Hope to continue conversing with you! I hope to figure out more and more Placentia & Fortune Bay Mi’kmaq families and put the pieces together.

      1. Hi Devon, I will respond to the atDNA comments in the coming 2-3 days okay. Interestingly I have many NL Mc matches through FTDNA Family Finder, ranging from 2nd-5th cousin matches, which was suprising, but not shocking, which brings a shared common uniparental ancestor back to ca. 1800 (5-6 Gens). Joe & Matthews are the common ancient ancestral thread uniting all of these kin groups in my personal matches. Until then.

    2. In addition to my previous comment I came across my old notes. In it I stated that a source had said: “(Sc.4) When Annie Barrington married Ambrose Picco, another man came by the name of Tom Hawco, who had something to do with Swift Current also. John Barrington & Mary Hawco. Tom died in an August Gale (From death records, he drowned on Aug 25, 1927).”

      1. Interestingly, I too am related to the Hawcos of Chapel’s Cove-Holyrood, Harbour Main, CBN, though my father’s mother’s (Williams) side-its supposedly the same group. Hawco shows up as a 2nd-3rd cousin match on FTDNA Family Finder. Through recently discovered affidavit wills & registered ship captain registries, the Hawco family of CBN is definitely of Jersey extraction. The family name Also (Hawco) w/o John Barrington as listed in the St. Bernard’s RC parish registers makes sense given the prevalence of h-dropping at the left-edge of prosodic words, through many NL Anglo-Irish speech communities, as are l-/r- insertion in stressed long vowel initial syllables. The grapheme pronounced as [s] suggests that John Barrington was familiar with and/or partly fluent in St. Pierre-Miquelon or Acadian French, as the orthographic was pronounced as Fr. (with cidella under c) (cf. Fr. garcon “boy”). Through our personal correspondence, William Duggan talked a bit about Mary Hawco, and how some people believed that she may have been of part-Indian descent. It has been speculated that Mary Hawco and Mary Whelan (perhaps Fr. Huelin) were related, being perhaps cousins or sisters. I often heard Alphonse Barrington saying that “Mary Hawco was more of an Indian than old John Barrington”. I don’t know if he meant that she lived more of an Indian lifestyle, or if she looked more Indian. As a side note Alphonse Barrington could remember as a young boy travelling with his family from Badger Brook, Exploit’s River, NDB, to go and visit poor Duncan, his Aunt Polly (Mary) (m. George Crocker) and his grandmother. He could remember getting off the train and walking down to Cape Pine, near Kilmory Resort, Swift Current, waiting on the shore for his uncle Duncan to come over in his canoe (shallop or dory) to pick them up while they were waiting on the shore. The old Barrington family residence or homestead at that time was located at the south end of Brown’s Island (aka Johnnie Martin’s Land), located near the isthmus or peninsula facing Mooring Cove on the east end and Indian Cove on the west end.-app. 30-40 ft. south of John Martin Sr.’s homestead. Note that Indian Cove was situated at the mouth of Rattling Brook, which flowed from the highland of Black Duck Brook, which emanated from Black Duck Pond, eastern side of Toby’s (Fr. Toupie, fr. Tompic) Outlook. The old Indian trail or path extended in a NW direction from Indian Cove, along the west side of Rattling Brook-Black Duck Brook, going inland past Culleton’s Pond and Blackhead-Indian Scrape. In addition to the Telegraph Line route as pathways into the interior taken by Indian travelers, this was perhaps the older Indian trail going into the interior of the island, extending to Exploit’s River in a NW direction through Bay de Nord Wilderness Reserve. Poor Duncan relocated from Indian Cove following the death of his mother and according to some oral traditions his first and only wife/fiance, who is reportedly buried under an apple tree across the river. He then moved in with his sister Polly and niece near George Crocker’s old homestead. Not without tears in his eyes, Alphonse talked a lot about his uncle who he affectionately called Poor Old Duncan. He told me a lot about him which some day I will share in the public domain. As you may know Mary Hawco’s Road in Conne River is named after the w/o John Barrington Sr.. I am quite certain now that the adoptive family of John Barrington Sr. (NL Mc-Mont) emanated from the King’s Cove, BB area, near Trinity, TB North (as per KCRC parish registers). I have located and corresponded with a direct living descendant from this patriline who have corroborated a family story of an Indian connection and hereditary professions as noted surveyors. So this brings the Barrington patriline closer to Trinity, TB North where a small NL Mc extended kin group (Brazils-Basques) of app. 6-7 resided during the time period 1817-22. I would have Brazil as the older family of NL Mc-Mont residing at Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole. The evidence explains how the Johns and Bernards, as well as perhaps Mitchells, tie into the Piper’s Hole watershed area. Hope this helps.

  2. I don’t known if you have any of this information on the Piccos as connected to John Barrington & Mary Hawco of Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole, PB, as cited from the NL 1921 Census of Swift Current:

    DOD (Date of Death) Sept 16, 1907
    POD (Place of Death) Piper’s Hole
    COD (Cause of Death) consumption
    Surname Picco
    Given Names Ann
    Religious Denomination Roman Catholic
    Age 28 years
    POB (Place of Birth) Pipers Hole
    POI (Place of Internment) Sound Island

    (http://ngb.chebucto.org/Vstats/death-reg-bk-5-1908-1910-psm.shtml)

    Picco
    Beatrice
    F
    Grandaughter
    Single
    Not at home
    Age Guessed
    5
    Swift Current
    [page 340]
    (http://ngb.chebucto.org/C1921/21-swift-current-psm.shtml)

    I don’t know if and/or how these PB Piccos tie into with the FB ones. At face value, the evidence seems to suggest some kind of connection and/or relationship between both family groups. Alphonsus Barrington Jr. of Badger Brook, Exploit’s River, NDB believed that the Piccos and Barringtons were somehow related but he didn’t know how the connection came about (Alphonse Barrington, personal communication, Badger, 2003-4). Hope this helps.

      1. Anytime Dorothy, you are very much welcome, and thank you for posting this information. I thoroughly enjoy reading all of your blog posts and commentaries on NL Mc family history-genealogy, as they are very informative, enlightening and insightful, as well as highly detailed and researched. Your research efforts and hard work are commendable and acknowledged in preserving this information for future generations. Furthermore, I would be more than happy to share any information that I have relating to the reconstructed ethnohistory and ancient human population history of the Piper’s Hole-Black River watershed areas. Through app. 25 years of fieldwork and research in this area, plus an ancient family connection to this beautiful area of NL, I have amassed a sizable corpus of information in this area of research study-most of which has already been shared in the public domain-but admittedly there are still many gaps, unanswered questions and dangling loose threads in connecting the data-hence the importance of research like Mr. Griffin’s. His research is equally and if not more important in educating the general public on the attested NL Mc connections in the Terrenceville-Long Harbour, Fortune Bay area. In addition to honoring and recognizing direct living descendants from this area with patrilines-matrilines emanating from Conne River (NL Mc Miawpukek, Br Le Cornu “The Horn”) through comparative archival “paper trail” research and “direct-to-consumer” commercial genetic genealogy testing (mtDNA HVR I-II, YDNA STR-SNP, atDNA), his work has implications for meshing together the missing “pieces of the puzzle” in reconstructing the ancient human migration and settlement history extending from Conne River, FB to Piper’s Hole (Fr. Baie L’argent), PB.. His research has implications for historic commemoration programs in the Long Harbour River, FB area, in partnership with Miawpukek, such as commemorative plaques, walking trail and/or lookout point NL Mc community history interpretation signs, a website and, of course, a book. I look fwd to one day seeing more publications by Mr. Griffin, and of course a publication on John family history-a most interesting topic in and of itself. Once again Dorothy thank you very much for posting this blog on FB Mi’kmaq, it is much appreciated and long overdue. Please do keep up the excellent work, it is duly noted and much respected.
        Namaste

        1. Hello there,
          Thanks for the kind words, the importance of keeping this history alive is very important not only for the family but for the communities as a whole. You seem very knowledgeable about the area and the persons who lived there. Would love to hear more from you on the topic of the families and hope to put together the pieces of the puzzle even more so, I’ve been looking for a another researcher of this area for years but have not been able to contact one. I would like more specific information on the families in Piper’s Hole. I would like to email you, perhaps Dorothy can email you my email so we can correspond? Thanks in Advance!

          As for the Picco’s you mentioned; Ann Picco who died in 1907 was originally Annie Barrington. She was the first wife of Ambrose Picco, son of Phillip Picco & Eliza Young. Ambrose was the nephew of the Mary Jane (Picco) Hanrahan who is pictured in this article. I believe I have a photo of Ambrose, but will have to check to see.

          I remember seeing Beatrice Picco before, but I cannot remember her parents names and for some reason I do not have it written down. Will try and find the information if you need it!

          Thanks Again
          Hope to hear from you!

  3. Here is a link for a photograph (Penney 2015: 9) dated 1872 of John Barrington Sr. (1825-1928) (of Black River-Indian Cove, Piper’s Hole River, PB & Conne River, FB) taken at the Heart’s Content Anglo-American electric telegraph station, TB North, standing in background at left behind a NL Mc birchbark canoe (maskwikwitn), along with Big John Stevens (of Halls Bay-Brigus, CBN), standing in foreground at right holding a canoe paddle (l’nui’pi), so as to give readers an idea of what the physical type or physiognomy of the Barrington patriline looked like. Mr. Barrington would have been app. 46-7 years of age at the time of the photograph. The caption of the photograph as excerpted is titled: ““Hearts Content, Newfoundland. 2 Mich mac Indians & Canoe. S.H. Davis March 24th 1872” (Western Union Archives, New York). John Barrington and Big John Stevens”. This is the same photograph published in the book “Connecting the Continents:Heart’s Content and the Atlantic Cable”, Ted Rowe (2009), and as far as the present researcher is aware presents the only known photograph of John Barrington Sr. to currently exist or to have survived at least where he has been positively identified-a most intriguing and beautiful photograph to say the least showing details of NL Mc clothing and material culture for this era. I hope this helps.

    Source: GPALT (Gerald Penney Associates Limited). 2015. James P. Howley, “the birth of Newfoundland archaeology, and the end of history”.
    (https://nlasarchsociety.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/gerry-penney-howley-nov-2015.pdf)

  4. Hello Dorothy : I am admin. of the Facebook Groups “Burgeo’s Past” and “Newfoundland Grand Banks” . We have been collecting information & pictures on the “Saunders”, “Rhymes” & “Picco” in the Group for the last 7 years. Esau Rhymes from Burgeo,NL. who married Ann Saunders , was married at Burgeo,NL. where they lived and raised their family. You can see all the information on the Family in “Burgeo’s Past” at this Link: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.10152654013457695&type=3

    1. Hi John, thanks for letting me know about your Facebook groups. I’m sure other readers will want to check them out too. And, if you didn’t see it, here’s a link to a post about Howard Blackburn, Tommy Welsh and the Lushmans that I wrote. In it, there’s a link to the Dec. 1912 Nf Quarterly “A Tale of the Sea” about Blackburn and Welsh that I transcribed. I had read Earl Pilgrim’s “Drifting into Doom” and was very taken with the story! 🙂

  5. Very interesting. My maternal grandmother was Susannah Saunders from Harbour Mille in Fortune Bay. She married Jacob Scott from the nearby community of Little Harbour East where they resided and raised a large family.

    1. Hi Marjorie, thanks for adding some names and places to the Saunders story. Any thoughts on Catherine Banfield, asked about by Eva yesterday?

      1. I believe she was from Southern Harbour and was a Mansfield not a Banfield, but I haven’t thoroughly researched the family. There were Mansfields in Southern Harbour and area. His brother married a Dawe I believe from Brigus?

    2. Hi Marjorie,

      Your Susannah (Saunders) Scott was the daughter of James Saunders & Maria Brown, granddaughter of George Saunders and his first wife Ann.

      Do you happen to know anything about your grandfather Jacob Scott’s mother Lavinia (Pardy) Scott. I have a friend looking for information on her. Thanks!!

  6. Jane Saunders (m. Timothy McCarthy), are my great grandparents, my mother who was born on Woods Island in the Bay of Islands these were her father’s (John McCarthy) parents

      1. Missing a generation in between. John McCarthy’s parents were Daniel McCarthy & Elizabeth Jane Thornhill. Daniel’s parents were Jane Saunders & Tim McCarthy.. For a little bit of information on Daniel, he got into an altercation with John Rideout (the first Rideout in Terrenceville) in 1894 after Rideout was taunting Daniel while he was rowing out in his punt for being “dirty skinned”. A derogatory term for being of Native descent. This is according to the arresting officer at the time. It seems John was an often an instigator from the interviews with witnesses which included Daniel’s father Tim McCarthy, John Rideout’s wife Catherine (McCarthy) Rideout, John McCarthy (Mary Hynes, daughter of Elizabeth Saunders’s husband) and others.

        1. Not sure how to post this in the comments but trying to post a picture of Timothy McCarthy, son of Daniel McCarthy & Elizabeth Jane Thornhill.

        2. Hi Devon, email me the pic. I think I can attach it to your comment. If not, I’ll put it in the post. And thanks for the extra info.

  7. Reading with interest! I am the baby in the picture with Anastasia Smith Murphy. John Murphy and Mary Murphy Brown were my Gr.Grandparents. I was brought up by my grandmother . She told us she was “reared up” in a tilt in Pipers Hole….which is in Swift Current area, even though her home was St. Joseph’s P.B. Many of her siblings settled in Parkers Cove after she did including her mother.

    1. Hi Jane, it’s so nice to hear from the baby! Thank you so much for writing, and for telling us more about your grandmother.

  8. My Greatgrandmother was Catherine Mansfield or Banfield from Southen Harbour PB. She married Louis John of Conne River had 4 sons.. Also John Barrington was born in Conne River moved to Swift Current/Piper Hole. Louis died in 1904, n his 80’s. Catherine died in 1942 buried at Conne River. Cannot find any info on her. My other side of the family involves the Joe’s.

    1. Hi Eva, I’ve tried to find out about Catherine Mansfield/Banfield too, and no luck. There’s lots of Banfields in Bay L’Argent and Garnish, according to googling I just did. That seems possible for her, geographically. But I can’t find any connection. Maybe somebody reading this will be able to help us out. Hope so!

    2. I believe she was from Southern Harbour and was a Mansfield not a Banfield, but I haven’t thoroughly researched the family. There were Mansfields in Southern Harbour and area. His brother married a Dawe I believe from Brigus?

      1. I was told by several family sources that Old Johnnie Martin (John Martin Jr.) (b. ca. 1875-1885, either Black River or Piper’s Hole, PB), a telegraph line repairman, of Rantem, TBSouth-Black River-Piper’s Hole, PB, worked on the (telegraph) line from Rantem, TB to Sandy Harbour River, PB, with Neddie (Edward) and Jimmie (James) Mansfield of Southern Harbour, PB. In addition to working with them on the telegraph line, they were also known to trap and hunt together in the Black River-Piper’s Hole watershed areas during the late 1800s to early 1900s. Johnnie Martin also worked with Nathaniel Hollett (of Black River, PB & Rantem, TBSouth) and the G(o)osneys of Black River-Pipers Hole, PB, both of whom served as telegraph line repairmen. Although it cannot be proven at present, I assume that both Edward & James Mansfield are either nephews of great-nephews of the Catherine Mansfield (wife of Lewis John) listed above. Alphonse Barrington Jr. of Badger Brook also believed that Catherine John (wife of Lewis John) was a Mansfied and not a Banfield. I suspect that the apparent mix up or confusion derived from one of two causative factors, namely: 1.) low perceptual salience between m and p among some Mc speakers, where both speech segments are oftentimes confused especially at left-edge prosodic words (cf., Mary (Molly) Barrington, pronounced as Polly Barrington among some Barrington direct descendants and Swift Current community residents & Mc etyma such as [m]tlu’tew ‘smoke’ transcribed as [p]tlutew~[n]tlutew~[k]tlutew, where the m~p~t~k alternation is common throughout the Mc dialect continuum; and 2.) the existence of Banfields in Long Harbour River, FB area with a similar sounding family name, the oral traditions of family origins became conflated. Coincidentally, Duncan Barrington (1905-1972/3), so John Barrington & Mary Hawco (sic. Also), the last member of the Barrington patriline to uphold and defend the traditional Indian way of living or lifestyle, and the last to reside at Indian Cove (Browns Island or Johnnie Martin’s Land) is buried in an unmarked plot at the Southern Harbour, PB.. As an endnote, it is interesting to note the connection between the John and Hollett families of Piper’s Hole, PB and Rantem, TB South; cf. Cath’n [Catherine] John, d. Jan. 17, 1910, POD Glenwood, POB Rantem [TB], POBurial Glenwood, aged 32 (RC) [DOB 1878] (http://ngb.chebucto.org/Vstats/death-reg-bk-5-1902-1910-tw.shtml). William P. Duggan, noted NL Mc family historian and genealogist believes that Catherine John [nee Hollett] was the first wife of William (Billy) John (brother of Louis John, s/o Peter John & Ellen Hall/Hann) and daughter of John (Jack) Hollett of Piper’s Hole, PB. (Bill Duggan, personal communication, 2010). If you have not previously corresponded with William P. Duggan, a specialist on John family history and a direct descendant of same said family, I would highly recommend that you contact him as he is a wealth of information on the topic. He informed me that it is his intention to publish a book on the matter in the foreseeable future. Communication with him in the near future might assist you in filling in some of the gaps in reconstructed John family history-genealogy.

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